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-   -   Reputation of Aussie pilots overseas (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/604849-reputation-aussie-pilots-overseas.html)

aviation_enthus 31st Jan 2018 05:35

Reputation of Aussie pilots overseas
 
Ok here’s a question I’ve been wanting to ask ever since I got to the Sandpit.

Has anyone else encountered the bad reputation or ‘watch out for the Aussie Captains’ comment from other pilots overseas?

As far as I can tell this relates back to the two major exodus’s from Oz, 1989 and the Ansett collapse. I get the impression there were a lot of w***ers that came overseas and told the rest of the world how to fly, because they knew best. Plus I imagine some of them were angry about being forced overseas...

Capt Fathom 31st Jan 2018 05:43

You tell us. You're in the Sandpit.

motley flight crue 31st Jan 2018 05:47

We are loved and revered by all.

Rated De 31st Jan 2018 05:51


We are loved and revered by all.
I would concur, HR departments the airline world over speak glowingly of pilots.

Heathrow Harry 31st Jan 2018 06:07

especially the standard, quiet, uncomplaining, reserved & retiring Australian Pilot of legend.........................

INeedTheFull90 31st Jan 2018 06:20

Not in the sandpit but here in Blighty I've worked with a few Austronauts and find them hard work. Supreme arrogance and the attitude that we somehow owe them something and they know more about the plane that we part build and can teach us a thing or two about how to fly them.

Sorry 'mate' but you chose to come here. You're most welcome, but the attitude that we couldn't cope without you is simply wrong. Don't like us, don't come here. It really is that simple. We owe you nothing.

It surprises me as I have a couple of non flying Australian friends and they're sound as a pound.

Stationair8 31st Jan 2018 06:25

What else would you expect from convicts, old chap!

We won’t mention the ashes campaign.

morno 31st Jan 2018 06:37

There’s a few around like that, but I also think that in certain parts of the world there’s some questionable standards by others as well, which in turn may result in some Australian pilots going “what the...?!”

morno

wishiwasupthere 31st Jan 2018 08:05

Austronauts.

pilotchute 31st Jan 2018 08:05

I think unfortunately this mentality is born from the fact that getting a jet job in Australia is a big deal. If you are flying a jet in Australia you are somehow "special". The ridiculous hiring mins of some Australian companies reflect this.

Going straight from flying school to a jet for these people is unthinkable.

donpizmeov 31st Jan 2018 08:20


Originally Posted by motley flight crue (Post 10037097)
We are loved and revered by all.

You were Motley. Not too sure about some of your mates :}

Ollie Onion 31st Jan 2018 08:32

When I was leaving the Overseas to work for an Australian airline I was quite excited until a Captain I was flying with said to me 'don't go, my experience of Australian check Captains during my time at Cathay is that they are a bunch of c$:ts'. When I joined the said Australian airline I found that Check Captains who were ex Ansett were generally exactly as described. I had never seen a pretty straight forward job complicated to such a degree and such poor CRM from supposed instructors. They are obviously exceptions and I am pleased to say that after a bit of a shake up and cultural shift many of those who give Aussie Captains a bad name have had their techniques 'adjusted'.

Derfred 31st Jan 2018 08:59


Originally Posted by pilotchute (Post 10037203)
If your flying a jet in Australia your somehow "special".

Misspelling "you're" twice in one sentence would get you kicked out of my airline.

:) :) :)

Mind you, there have been flight deck punch-ups about whether it's "misspell" or "mis-spell"...

ACMS 31st Jan 2018 09:05

Really? This requires a thread.

Get a life.

Capt Fathom 31st Jan 2018 09:09


This requires a thread.
No it doesn’t. I thought school holidays had finished!

pilotchute 31st Jan 2018 11:39

Thank you spelling police. I blame a fat thumb.

Glorified Dus Briver 31st Jan 2018 20:51

The reputation is as glowing as Aussies in Bali.

Sleeve Wing 31st Jan 2018 21:18

Well I never flew with a bad one in the days when you were allowed to work in the UK for a defined period. I flew with quite a few in the 70s and 80s. In fact, guys who’d flown light twins and learned in the Bush were pretty good in my opinion. Just needed taking in hand that’s all !

C152gal 31st Jan 2018 22:06

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by aviation_enthus (Post 10037089)
Has anyone else encountered the bad reputation or ‘watch out for the Aussie Captains’ comment from other pilots overseas?

brilliant thread, and my answer is...yoh mate.

Berealgetreal 31st Jan 2018 22:33

There is nothing worse than working for a company that has the Astronaut factor particularly in the C&T department. It’s miserable and has the opposite effect of what it intends.

The best system is one that recruits self motivated individuals that want to improve and welcome feedback. My current employer has the best CT system I’ve ever worked under. The number of astronauts can be counted on one hand and more often than not are also pretty reasonable but come across the wrong way.

The Astronaut factor is my number one criteria when researching an employer as no matter what the conditions, if you are living in fear the whole time it’s simply not worth it.

krismiler 1st Feb 2018 00:39

Australian Captains are generally well balanced people, they have a chip on each shoulder.

Sorry couldn't resist. ��

maggot 1st Feb 2018 01:39


Originally Posted by wishiwasupthere (Post 10037202)
Austronauts.

Dunno what the Austrians did to deserve this reputation but I will say it's a catchy term

Wizofoz 1st Feb 2018 02:52

Without starting a firestorm my impression was a lot of this stemmed from a certain event in the late 80's meaning a large group of largely pizzed off Aussies ended up overseas largely not through their own doing.

They did come from a culture where they had been told they were the best, our system was the safest etc.

The "second wave" (including me) in the wake of Ansett certainly had it's share of people who fit the above, but we also had to contend with a lot of pre-conceptions from the first group.

I think it's improving as the new generation move in who aren't associated with either of these two groups.

haughtney1 1st Feb 2018 04:24

Wiz old boy, I think you are right on the money. I witnessed it first hand when I went to the UK in 98 and had the misfortune of having an ex AN LTC who is still in my mind 20 years later the worst in terms of those negative traits previously described.
Fortunately I’ve always been one to stand my ground with individuals such as him so I survived it, but it merely reinforced the well deserved reputation that did the rounds back then and survives to this day in Al Gahoud.
In fairness, I’ve flown with far more good Ozmates than bad ones, and in all honesty I’ve flown with more Kiwis who were pr1cks rather than nice ones like me:}
To me it all comes back to basic human interactions, Ozzie’s typically project their opinions in a way that plenty of cultures find initially rather confronting and associate that trait with being arrogant and brash, get past that, and I’ve realised that most Ozmates I fly with are just as messed up and useless like me.

Old Fella 1st Feb 2018 05:47

Mostly, it is said, the "cream comes to the top". On this thread it seems not to be the case. Having spent many years sharing oxygen with various Brits, Aussies, Kiwi's and others I found the vast majority to be genial, competent operators. Thankfully it was the exception to operate with "pompous pricks", however when it did happen it was not restricted to any one ethnic group.

Global Aviator 1st Feb 2018 05:51

Think you can say that about any nationality, there are their fare share of twats that ruin it for the majority.

I too aggree with Wiz it’s changing. As in the past yes I’d say Aussies were branded a certain way and not good!

The new breed of ****... the upgraded cadet. Again the minority of the majority but I have seen a sense of entitlement in a previous job... I have my 3000,4000,5000, insert Airlines minimums here where is my command.

mrdeux 1st Feb 2018 06:58

Now I feel deprived. I don't have any Austronaut's wings. Have to fix that.

The Pirate 4th Feb 2018 10:30

In my time overseas there were two types of pilots:- the ones that came from Ansett and the ones that didn't. Ask anyone who has flown with the two types.

Jack.

krismiler 4th Feb 2018 11:37

Unfortunately the phrase "That's not how we did things at Ansett." was used a bit too often.

Flava Saver 4th Feb 2018 12:16

Ahh yes. Aussie Pilots are in fact the best in the world. Providing you’ve previously worn a blue shirt. Having said that, there are some exceptionally great folk in that mix, but bloody hell...have had the ‘privilege’ to work with some absolute smokers of the highest order as well. PH UCK me. Shuttle folks. Let’s launch the god damn shuttle today, 4 times. :rolleyes: :ugh: :}

clear to land 4th Feb 2018 17:09

We can't launch today-we are still Briefing for the Pre-Launch ! ;)

Luggage 4th Feb 2018 17:15

Austronaights
 
So its clear Aussies are not too popular to fly with according to some on here. How did the so called 'Austronaught' syndrome come into existence?:}

donpizmeov 4th Feb 2018 19:15

Have a read of some of the threads here, and then have a guess.

RodH 4th Feb 2018 19:28

An Observation
 
I had the privilege of working for an overseas Airline for a year after the 1989 debacle. After that I was very fortunate to land a job as a Flight Instructor with one of the two major Aircraft Manufacturers and thus spent quite a lot of time instructing and Examining Pilots from Airlines all over the world. It was not until I had spent quite a bit of time doing this that I realised just what a pack of w..k.rs most of the Ansett Check Pilots were . There were some very good ones but there sure were lots of those who thought they were the worlds best. Its not until you actually fly with the other pilots from around the world you realise just how wrong they were. There was an inbuilt " I am the greatest " within the " hierarchy " of the Ansett Flight Dept. in the late 70's to the eighties. These idiots truly believed they were so good. I even knew one who used to walk around with a baseball cap on with the words " Sherriff " on it. It was pitiful to see these blokes join Airlines and try to change things to be the Ansett way as this was obviously the best in the world ---WRONG . The best way to describe these fools is that " They paint 4 stripes on their dicks and pull rank all day ". They really were a " sorry Lot " . This is the way I saw it first hand and from one who did work amongst very many different Airlines Pilots.:=:=:=:=:=

RoyHudd 4th Feb 2018 19:29

Nowhere near as good as they believe they are. That's the old, original ANA pilots, now mostly retired, and the strike-breaking "golden scabs", still around in abundance.

The majority are/were safety hazards, simply because of the antipathy they generated on the flight deck with non-Oz colleagues.

Obviously a few exceptions are around, but they are in a minority.

I found them a sad bunch of characters to work with, and no better aviators than the rest of us, but with bad attitudes.

TWT 4th Feb 2018 19:47

It's an attitude which is not confined to aviation. Have seen the same in other fields.

It's very cringeworthy and unpleasant to observe, but fortunately the offenders are not in the majority.

Wizofoz 4th Feb 2018 20:33

Well, as an ex-AN guy, all I can do is say with cap in hand- yeah a lot of that is true.

HOWEVER- what WOULD it have been like if it had been Qantas that had gone Tango Uniform, and THOSE guys had been let loose on the airlines of the world!!!!!!

cooperplace 5th Feb 2018 06:47

As a mere uninformed light aircraft pilot but with much US, Europe and Australia flying as passenger, I suggest that the "we're the best, I'm doing you a favor" attitude also extends to some Australian cabin crew, esp. those of an airline starting with Q.

pilotchute 5th Feb 2018 08:12

Once upon a time when the Q still flew to Frankfurt, my wife pressed the call button and asked the flight attendant for some water. She was told that the call button was only for emergencies and she could get up and go the galley herself if she wanted water.

"The crew on Emirates don't mind getting me water" was the response. CC stomped off and came back with water.

Thats the last time we flew Q long haul.

schweizer2 5th Feb 2018 09:09


Originally Posted by pilotchute (Post 10042384)
Once upon a time when the Q still flew to Frankfurt, my wife pressed the call button and asked the flight attendant for some water. She was told that the call button was only for emergencies and she could get up and go the galley herself if she wanted water.

"The crew on Emirates don't mind getting me water" was the response. CC stomped off and came back with water.

Thats the last time we flew Q long haul.


I have had a similar response to CC on Q....

My last booking with Q was only made as I had no other alternative for the day I had to travel. I even looked at non direct flights to avoid booking with Q.


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