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-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   MH 122 Syd KL diverted to Alice Springs due to "Technical Issues" (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/604348-mh-122-syd-kl-diverted-alice-springs-due-technical-issues.html)

Gegenbeispiel 19th Jan 2018 09:05

Is Alice suitable for a chartered An-22 or B747-8F to bring in a spare engine, other bits needed and tooling to swap engines? And take the bad one to be investigated?

Capn Bloggs 19th Jan 2018 09:31

https://s26.postimg.org/v5juy91nd/MAS122.jpg

ExSimGuy 19th Jan 2018 09:53


Originally Posted by Gegenbeispiel (Post 10024509)
Is Alice suitable for a chartered An-22 or B747-8F to bring in a spare engine, other bits needed and tooling to swap engines? And take the bad one to be investigated?

As a regular SLF, but someone who has never flown a jet above about 20 ft ;) (back in my days at BA Cranebank)
I'd respectfully suggest that the above argument is (merely) a logistics issue, and not a safety one.
(Plus I'm sure that any airline would rather face trucking whatever is needed to ASP in prefererence to recovering the debris from the middle of nowhere!)

Old Fella 19th Jan 2018 10:55

Nearest SUITABLE
 
The Captain would have chosen to land at Alice Springs based on all the information available to him at the time. You can be sure the safety of the aircraft and occupants would have been paramount in his mind.

rob_ginger 19th Jan 2018 11:05

Descent Procedure
 
Some technical questions - I see from the flightaware plot in post 2 and the altitude plot in post 63 that the aircraft did a 180 degree turn, and descended from 10,000m to around 7,000m. Is the 180 turn (to get out of the way of other aircraft,as I understand it) a Malaysian SOP, or is it pretty universal world wide? And what's the approximate OEI ceiling for an A330 - obviously depends on gross weight, etc.. (I already know the A330 ceiling with two engines out :)).

And from the linked ATC audio I thought I heard a request for a "high speed descent" - is that usual? No criticism intended - just interested in the technical details.

BTW, my personal experience affirms that engine failures/shutdowns in flight are very rare. I've done a lot of flying to Asia and Europe over the years, and the only engine shutdown I can remember was on a BA Bristol Britannia. (I bet there's not many people reading can say they've flown in a Britannia!).

Perrin 19th Jan 2018 11:28

yes
 
I have nice kite, nice ride.

:ok:

jumby164 19th Jan 2018 12:51


Originally Posted by Warragul (Post 10024387)
Only by prior arrangement or in an emergency.

The USAF milk runs are cleared elsewhere usually Richmond I believe.

They used to stop in Alice to drop off vehicles and supplies in the 90's - pretty sure it was a Galaxy. In 95 they even delivered a flag pole for a local RAAF Radar Unit.

scifi 19th Jan 2018 15:01

Alice Springs does have a road, the Stuart Highway. So they could bring a spare engine in by road. Looks like another Goose Bay type engineering problem, but a bit warmer.
.
http://www.airports-worldwide.com/im...lia_03_big.jpg
.

packapoo 19th Jan 2018 20:12

Retired aircraft park at Alice Springs.....Seems a good opportunity to swap planes and continue...

LeadSled 20th Jan 2018 04:02


In a twin, that should have nothing to do with it.
Folks,
Is there no end to surprises, I am agreeing with Bloggs about something??
Tootle pip!!

Old Fella 20th Jan 2018 04:39

Britannia
 
Rob-Ginger. "Not many here who would have flown on a Bristol Britannia" ???

I serviced them in the early 1960's, along with Connies when they transited Adelaide. Also serviced and flew in Bristol Freighters, something which even fewer would have done I suspect.

As for the 180 degree turn and descent from 10000 metres to 7000 metres
the turn would simply to back-track toward Alice Springs and the descent may well have been the OEI driftdown altitude for the weight and ISA conditions prevailing.

zanzibar 21st Jan 2018 02:08


Originally Posted by Arnold E (Post 10024468)
Interesting the discussion here about where to land and particularly what the company policy is. If I was a passenger, or indeed the pilot with an engine failure on a twin engine aircraft, the last thing on the list of considerations to me would be company policy. the heroes who want to continue beyond the absolute nearest runway that can accept the aircraft in my opinion are crazy. An engine has failed, why? what has caused it? what is the condition of the other engine? will it fail also? Is the failed engine windmilling? will it suddenly seize? what are the consequences if it does? was the pylon damaged in any way during the event? If I am ever a passenger on an aircraft that you are flying and it has an engine failure (catastrophic by the sounds of it), please forget all the hero pilot shit and get the damn thing on the ground as soon as possible:rolleyes:

Maybe I should have put "SOPs" instead of "policy" for your better understanding, Arnold, although there is usually not much between them.

Do you understand that these a/c are maintained to ETOPS/EDTO (or similar) standards which means the probability of both engines suffering a failure is reduced to an infinitesimal level? That is why they are certified to fly for 120/180/217 minutes (depending on the type) on one engine.

If you would like the crew to get the a/c on the ground as soon as possible (into an airport that is less than ideal i.e. suitable) when it is not required then I take it you would be extremely uncomfortable being in a twin-engined aircraft crossing the Pacific where the nearest aerodrome might be somewhere like Tarawa or Kosrae. They certainly might be nearer (achieving your "as soon as possible" desire) but they are not "suitable" for a number of reasons.

As to a failed engine windmilling and then seizing - what is the issue, it's not developing power anyway? Seizure would preclude any relight attempt but not many would want to try that seeing they've shut it down for good reason.


p.s Just commenting on your "the absolute nearest runway that can accept the aircraft". We don't know the circumstances that took WA coastal aerodromes out of consideration. Things like RFF, weather, available approaches, pilot familiarity (the crew may well have done sim famil into ASP for all we know) are all factors that contribute to an aerodrome being "suitable". It may well transpire that ASP was "the absolute nearest runway that can accept the aircraft". Why don't we wait until we have the facts.

.

scifi 24th Jan 2018 18:48

My bet is that they were trying to back-track to Sydney. They first found out that they could not maintain 10000m so had to descend to 7000m. Then they realised that Sydney was going to be just too far away. So only then did they declare a Pan, and landed at the nearest airfield.


Does anyone have any details of what has happened to the aircraft at Alice, or are news sources limited there.
.

morno 25th Jan 2018 00:46

Get your arm out from between the cusion and the arm of the chair

megan 25th Jan 2018 01:06


Originally Posted by Arnold E
Interesting the discussion here about where to land and particularly what the company policy is. If I was a passenger, or indeed the pilot with an engine failure on a twin engine aircraft, the last thing on the list of considerations to me would be company policy. the heroes who want to continue beyond the absolute nearest runway that can accept the aircraft in my opinion are crazy. An engine has failed, why? what has caused it? what is the condition of the other engine? will it fail also? Is the failed engine windmilling? will it suddenly seize? what are the consequences if it does? was the pylon damaged in any way during the event? If I am ever a passenger on an aircraft that you are flying and it has an engine failure (catastrophic by the sounds of it), please forget all the hero pilot shit and get the damn thing on the ground as soon as possible
Got an idea for you Arnold. The IFE could have a page, where if an emergency occurs, which could display a range of options. All the passengers vote, and the winning vote is what the crew does. After all, the crew has absolutely no idea of the best course of action, which your post so eloquently espouses. Of course you would need to pay extra when purchasing the ticket for access to this facility.

Capn Bloggs 25th Jan 2018 01:17


Originally Posted by Megan
which your post so eloquently espouses.

No it doesn't.

I can see exactly what Arnold is getting at and it doesn't involve having a vote or going to the nearest convenient airport.

Berealgetreal 25th Jan 2018 01:46

Vote via facebook or Twitter would be better.

zanzibar 25th Jan 2018 04:39


or are news sources limited there?
No, they reported that the aircraft diverted there and had footage of, and interviews with, the pax as well as footage of the a/c on the tarmac.
Not newsworthy any more so there'll be SFA from the press.

FAR CU 25th Jan 2018 07:09


Quote:
In a twin, that should have nothing to do with it.
Folks,
Is there no end to surprises, I am agreeing with Bloggs about something??
Tootle pip!!

OBVIOUS - to all but "the great unwashed". Not even a "command decision".

Fliegenmong 25th Jan 2018 08:49

"Got an idea for you Arnold. The IFE could have a page, where if an emergency occurs, which could display a range of options. All the passengers vote, and the winning vote is what the crew does. After all, the crew has absolutely no idea of the best course of action, which your post so eloquently espouses. Of course you would need to pay extra when purchasing the ticket for access to this facility."

Remember, years ago now, when PPRUNE was a place of intelligent discourse and not a vipers pit of of [email protected] @rssed replies?


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