With due resects, you talk as if on location. What did you do?

I know when I was involved in a lost aircraft of a friend/group, I sent out every resource available in the hours before it was taken over by the official SAR.

I personally wore some cost, but that was never a issue or concern. I said fill up and search - to me that was my guarantee to pay whatever the cost.


Bad weather was also a factor in that accident and one never found.

But we gave +100% effort as private individuals.

Woah there cowboy. I don't know what you're getting at with a response like that but how about you have a good read and then think a bit before shooting your mouth off.

My reply was simply a brief timeline and a correction to what was previously requested. I'm sure you're well aware of the amount of rpt traffic passing through NZ on a daily basis. When we passed through ISM hadn't officially been confirmed missing yet. Slightly overdue yes but not missing.

When we passed through on Sunday we'd already been informed that Hevilift were sending one of there 402s.
Which, unfortunately, didn't arrive till Sunday afternoon.

I've also been involved in a search previously (Tropicair caravan). But when you're operating on a part 121 aircraft you simply cannot buzz around low enough to see anything below the jungle canopy or for any considerable time to assist. This really does make you feel helpless I can assure you that. In terrain and jungle like that you can really only look for smoke.
But as we found out later NCA aircraft have gps trackers so they already had some coordinates. The only suitable search aircraft was there own Pac the other islander or any choppers that could assist.

The situation was constantly in everyone's mind across the weekend. Many phone calls between friends to find out more information or make suggestions of contacts at companies that may have equipment to help.

Seeing as though your so quick to ask "What did you do?" How about you send a letter to the PNG Government or even the PNGDF force and ask where were they during all of this. But, I'm sure you know the answer to that.

Well, the Manolos pilot himself reports they were airborne out of LAE within 30 minutes of the accident. They were called directly by NCA to respond. So I stand by what I said earlier.

PNGDF were also scrambled but their helicopter can't hover at 9,500' so the rescue effort was left to civilian resources.

Fair call. I stand corrected if he departed Lae. Unfortunately the timeline stated we heard nothing and certainly not within the 30 min of aircraft being overdue.

I was there at the time. NCA sent a pac to the area, and a helicopter was also sent from Lae, within a short time of ISM being overdue.

The pilot has been named as David Tong in The Australian. A gifted musician . Last night on the ABC is it Hewitt conducts a program where she visits outlying areas of Aus . Robe in SA was featured. It has a monument pays tribute yearly to 20 crayfisherman who died over 70 years.It pays to reflect on how many expats have died over the years. Those who pretend that the death toll has dropped because of Government vigilance is disa lusioned. There are a fraction of the airstrips serviceable today the amount of bush flying has reduced hugely plus GPS. Talair had nearly 70 aircraft. Pom to Kerema prior to 74 had 7 strips i recall all now closed.

There you have it, prior to '74. Since Independence things have deteriorated to the state it is in now. The promises of great wealth due to extraction of natural resources has come to virtually nothing. The trees are going, the oil is almost gone and there is very little to show for it. Without the billions of dollars in foreign aid gifted to the country since Independence the situation today would be even worse.

On the other hand some people have done very well indeed and they should be an inspiration to everyone else !

Not for the politicians; they have certainly prospered.

PNG does not need foreign aid; it just needs good governance.

Property developers and real estate agents in Cairns and Singapore in particular.

Tribute for David from ABC News
RIP
RW

'Daredevil virtuoso' concert pianist turned bush pilot David Tong killed in Papua New Guinea mountain crash - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

In the year 2000 despite starting my career on single engine aircraft, like many young pilots I was finding the search for twin engine experience even in the Northern Territory tough going. After an extensive search for twin engine opportunities, I got in touch with Geoff Thiele of North Coast Aviation.

Geoff was affable and clearly very experienced. He indicated that given that I had some territory experience, I would likely start on the Islander if I chose to come up to PNG and have a look. He also suggested that I might buy a return ticket for my trip over in the event that I didn't like it. What's not to like I presumed!

Upon arrival in Lae, Geoff was kind enough to offer me a familiarisation flight up in to the Kabwum Valley. The Kabwum valley contains a number of hill tribe villages nominally four thousand feet above sea level. It is called a valley because it is surrounded on all sides by mountainous terrain as high as fifteen thousand feet.

Climbing out of Nadzab was both spectacular and daunting. As we approached a lower point in the surrounding high terrain known as "20 mile gap" we entered solid cloud cover.

With a fully loaded Islander struggling to climb at almost ten thousand feet above sea level we were indicating an airspeed of 65 knots. I couldn't help but notice the trees rushing past us no more that one thousand feet below despite not being able to see anything in front of us.

Having been awed by the view up to that point, I failed to realise that Geoff had been using a Garmin 100 GPS receiver to determine his position through the "Gap", this is not a device that was, is or ever has been approved for use in Instrument Flight Conditions and in the even higher surrounding terrain such as we had, there are limitations with its ability to receive a satellite signal and determine an accurate position in any case.

Upon our return to Lae I asked Geoff about an NCA pilot that had been killed in the previous months, there was a picture of him on the back of one of the office doors in his aviator sunglasses. Geoff was candid enough to point out that this young man was killed on his second flight in to a particular airstrip for which he was to have been checked out three times. He crashed all alone. When asked why he wasn't supervised three times in to the airstrip, as was the requirement, Geoff responded by saying, "He was a good operator, he looked like he'd be fine, I guess it's all water under the bridge now". I've never forgotten those words.

I didn't have the privilege of knowing David or the circumstances that surround David's accident, nevertheless like many others, reading about it sent chills up my spine, particularly when I saw a YouTube video of him performing such beautiful music as a child prodigy of eleven years.

On reflection, it seemed strange that this accident would be in any way more poignant than the stories of the many other young pilots that have lost their lives in similar circumstances. Perhaps David's extraordinary humanity was highlighted so eloquently through his other passion in a way that simply tells us of yet another tragic story a very different way.

I never thought I would take Geoff's advice and use the return ticket to Australia. Indeed following the collapse of Ansett, the struggle to gain hours back home didn't get any easier and I sometimes wondered if I had made the right decision. Another PNG pilot had suggested that the flying in PNG was all a matter of setting your own personal minimum standards.

Maybe the only thing I had going for me was that I didn't trust myself to operate in such an environment. Perhaps if Geoff hadn't of shown me how things were done, I too might also have chosen adventure over comfort and familiarity.

My deepest condolences to all him knew him.

Absolute madness. That is so wrong for so many reasons. Even by PNG standards, which I'm quite familiar with (having 10 years experience flying in PNG). Pilots get killed in PNG mainly because they do stuff that they shouldn't. Either because they've seen someone else do it, or they feel under pressure to do it for whatever reason, or for reasons known only to themselves. Controlled flight into terrain, usually in bad weather. Nothing mechanically wrong with the aircraft.

I flew both 260 and 300hp Islanders into the Kabwum Valley to and from Lae airport. I don’t recall any issues when it came to climbing. Obviously the 300hp was better, but most of our Islanders were 260s. Maybe the locals were skinnier back then?
That said, we used to fly east/northeast out of Lae to avoid the Nadzab CTA steps, so we went around the big rocks rather than over them!

gulliBell is your time in PNG rotary?

The Otter faces similar problems “jumping” ridges as the BN2.

The majority of fixed wing has cleaned itself up in recent years and some have a way to go.

Speaking of Otter...I was so spooked about what was going on I spoke up about it. A month later the Kokoda prang happened (same operator). I’ve been out of the PNG loop for a few years now, I’m glad to read of improvements.

On my own and a long way short of full fuel . I had a 260hp islander at 14000 ft plus out of Woitape for what its worth

I had 18 years flying in PNG. You inevitably sometimes did the wrong thing. I was never pressured by any operator(4) to do that. Geoff Thiele is a fine man and its pretty raw flying. You get bettter with time and exposure

Got one to 17,000' once in much the same circumstances.

With no navaids working in the country GPS or local knowledge is the only form of navigation these days. Makes legal IFR almost impossible.
Rotary IFR is just all sorts of wrong...
Sad state of affairs really.
Someone needs to call it what it is... a failed state.

Crikey, considering its service ceiling is 14,600 that was quite some effort to get one into low earth orbit like that.

Oh I dunno 'bout that gulliBel. I know that others managed far greater altitudes than that.

I did hear that a Talair pilot once got a 300hp version to over 20,000.' Exactly what altitude was reached I never found out, as those who know kept shtumm!!:eek: One Person I spoke to did know but pointedly refused to say!:=

In my time there, there was a sort of unofficial 'record book' of altitudes reached in various aircraft types. I know that someone managed 30,000' in an 'A' model C402.:eek: And it wasn't me!:= I do know who but I 'aint sayin!!:=

I will confess that I was IMC to get there though. From memory (would have to check the log book) I was flying a Simbu BN2 from Wewak back to Moresby (via Yule Island) and if memory serves correctly the LSALT was around 16,000' when flown thataway.

Will check my logbook in due course and get back to you.

Crickey Pinky you packed a lot into your 18 months in PNG, you seem to have a story on every subject! Surely you will run out soon? :E

Think I have now actually. But then again, didn't everyone who flew in that place pack heaps into their time there?:confused:

Everyone I knew did the max flight times permissible each month when it came to pushing BN2's etc around the place.

gulliBell has flown with a pilot who took a C206 to 20 - 21,000 to get VFR, and out of trouble, though he may not be aware.

Did he have oxygen?! Guess he must have...

Because the terrain goes up to 14000ft, you can fly up to 24000ft without oxygen! :E

Not according to CAR 91.209

Not according to the laws of human physiology - at 24000 feet without oxygen the time of useful consciousness is about 3 minutes. Any human being would be seriously hypoxic. And please don’t tell me you can legally fly at 24000 feet without O2. I’m sorry but some of these urban legends are full of s*@t

I think most noted the evil smile!

Cancelling SAR from 20000
 

Spent a lovely 6 months based at Pelikowa (Sth Manus) in 1974.
The HF was soooo bad that every afternoon I needed to climb to 20k in the B206 to cancel SAR with Mandang on VHF.
I never ever noticed the mechanic putting a slab in the boot - but it sure tasted nice when chilled off.
Oh, 18 minutes up, 5 down
:cool:

18 minutes to 20,000 in a B206, Jetranger? Followed by a 4000 fpm descent back to land? Hilarious.

Practice autorotation from 20,000

this thread seems to be degenerating into a " my dick is bigger than yours" one,:rolleyes: nothing to do with the crash, time to shut it down methinks.:ugh:

Quite right faheel

Getting back on track.

It is the almighty dollar or kina that is the root of the problem I believe. Time and money spent on good training is wasted when it comes to the bottomline. Yeah I have heard the "have an accident and see what that costs" story.
In my time in PNG(started pre GPS) time and money was spent on training along with consolidation. Be it hours on type or hours in country.I managed an ANO 28 for those that remember.

The standards/conditions have been softened to get people in the door as times are changing and there is not so much of a need to go bush anymore.
3000 hours petrol then Jet A1
1000 hours before a twin endo

Unheard of now.

I would expect the usual comments about age but it proves my point for those that can understand.

If the opportunity is given to work in PNG take it,know your limitations and grow with job,you will live longer.

Sadly too many of my fellow pilots have died in PNG.

It's the state of the industry across the industry, now, in my opinion, Night Beetle. There's more than one operator of multi-crew transport category aircraft that used to have slowish but steady progression to command, and a cadre of excellent and experienced skippers that now recruit first officers who get itchy feet if they aren't moving left inside eighteen months.

Topic creep but altitude for use of oxygen is not an empirical number ! People live in altitudes in the high teens !! While I was camera surveying in DC3 at 20,000 feet amgl when went higher and higher without oxygen each week. ( as it was a pain to get the system charged in Africa!!) Except pilot of course - we made sure he had a supply !!

It is an empirical number for pilots because it says so in the air navigation regulations. Pilots might choose to ignore it, just like some people ignore stopping at red traffic lights.

Saw in yesterday’s The National they are recruiting for CEO Air Safety Bureau.

Front page of today’s edition of The National shows picture of crash site and initial accident report on p.6.
He did well to initially survive that impact.