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Approach to BNE today
Exactly which approach is this into BNE today? :)
https://s8.postimg.org/ivp86kfn9/strange.jpg Out of interest though, once the crew is informed by ATC that there isn't going to be a normal STAR, which I'm guessing, this isn't, is that when ATC vector the aircraft the whole way, or onto the glide slope? |
Decent storm front through about an hour or two ago
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In my case, CB's (nor any significant weather for that matter) weren’t forecast until later in the afternoon, (hours after our ETA) even the ATIS only indicated few at 3000 with distant showers. 20 minutes later we carry out a visual until advised of a wind change with a 25kt tailwind (TS approaching) on the ground. With little fuel to play with so off to the Sunny Coast, followed by 1/2 dozen others.
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RENURPP
Jepps Meteorology AU11 paragraph 1 says the TAF Inter and Tempo periods do not guarantee when the actual weather will occur.So if it’s on the TAF carry it. |
So if there are TS anywhere on a 36 hour TAF you should carry the fuel?
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Originally Posted by AerocatS2A
(Post 9986599)
So if there are TS anywhere on a 36 hour TAF you should carry the fuel?
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Mates Rates, I'm not sure if I'm missing something but, out of curiosity you have a more accurate reference for that? I can't find it.
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I've lived in Brissy for more than 25 years but the last 18 months or so have been in a reasonably elevated position between the airport and the city. Whilst well aware of potential wind effects associated with thunderstorms, it's not until I lived here that I've noticed the phenomenal gusts associated with storms approaching Brisbane. Those approaching from a more southerly rather than westerly direction appear to be more severe and are often more destructive. They seem to have a different appearance, usually with a distinct leading roll-cloud. I'm sure a meteorologist could explain the reason for the difference but in the meantime……...
Beware of Brissy's (and everywhere else's) thunderstorms and take care! |
Originally Posted by Mates Rates
the TAF Inter and Tempo periods do not guarantee when the actual weather will occur.So if it’s on the TAF carry it.
That said, given the (in)accuracy of BOM forecasting these days, it'd probably be a good idea! |
Approach to BNE today
Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
(Post 9986948)
Rubbish. TAF 06-06 CAVOK, INTER 18-24 95TS. You don't need to carry 30 holding at if arriving at 09. if you're arriving at 19, of course you carry it.
That said, given the (in)accuracy of BOM forecasting these days, it'd probably be a good idea! |
SHVC
The applicable paragraph is “INTERPRETATION and USE of FORECASTS” Jepps Meteorology AU 11 Paragraph 1. |
I say again, there is no requirement to carry holding if you're not in the holding period, and that section does not indicate so.
Jepps Meteorology AU11 paragraph 1 says the TAF Inter and Tempo periods do not guarantee when the actual weather will occur Page 523 for the nerds... :ok: |
I did read that mates rates, the way you worded it made it difficult for me to find, I don't interperate it as you do otherwise we would be carrying alternates and tempo/inter fuel almost everyday, it's just a waffle on saying the times they give are the "most probable for the time of the forecast" with TS if you're going to arrive an hr before or after commen sense would tell you to take the gas, 12hrs before arrival would you carry the extra gas?!
"The specific value of any of the meteorological elements given in a forecast shall be understood to vary due to the limitations of forecasting techniques and limitations caused by the definition of some of the elements. The recipient shall understand that any specific element in a forecast will be the most probable value which the element is likely to assume during the period of the fore-cast. Similarly, when the time of occurrence or change of an element is given in a forecast, this time shall be understood to be the most probable time which is likely during the period of the fore-cast" |
My point is simply this.Do not attempt to blame BOM if TS’s occur outside the Tempo period.They have already wiped their hands of any responsibility!Think of the good news,you already have an answer to the Flight Department managers who want you to run around with minimum fuel or not carry the extra fuel when you think it is necessary.
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So if I’ve got a TAF with TEMPO fog early in the morning, I should carry the extra fuel for my 3 pm arrival?
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Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard
(Post 9987032)
So if I’ve got a TAF with TEMPO fog early in the morning, I should carry the extra fuel for my 3 pm arrival?
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Not really much point having a forecast at all then, is there? Just gas it up to max RTOW, and hope for the best.
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Mates Rates - Christ, dont try and use that logic on me if you ever fly with me!
The purpose of those words is more to cover the we predicted 15 kts and you got 10, or 25, NOT we stuck a tempo for TS on at 5pm local and it turned up at 6 am, so nah nah na nah nah its your fault. I have no problems with interpreting TAFS and adjusting the fuel accordingly, in fact I do so all the time, I have often loaded TEMPO fuel on for an arrival that was scheduled a couple of hours before the forecast requirement and lo and behold the tempo came forward, but I have never, in more than 30 years of flying, including over 25 in command of multi crew aeroplanes, carried fuel for a requirement in the manner you describe. It isnt practical on many aeroplanes and it isnt necessary, nor does it do anything to improve safety and it sure as hell isnt an economic thing to do. It is my belief that our brief as pilots is the safe and efficient movement of aeroplanes and the people within - carrying fuel in the manner described satisfies neither of those elements in my opinion. And I am not a "captain vapours" type person either before you have a crack at me. |
Mates Rates - Christ, dont try and use that logic on me if you ever fly with me! The purpose of those words is more to cover the we predicted 15 kts and you got 10, or 25, NOT we stuck a tempo for TS on at 5pm local and it turned up at 6 am, so nah nah na nah nah its your fault. I have no problems with interpreting TAFS and adjusting the fuel accordingly, in fact I do so all the time, I have often loaded TEMPO fuel on for an arrival that was scheduled a couple of hours before the forecast requirement and lo and behold the tempo came forward, but I have never, in more than 30 years of flying, including over 25 in command of multi crew aeroplanes, carried fuel for a requirement in the manner you describe. It isnt practical on many aeroplanes and it isnt necessary, nor does it do anything to improve safety and it sure as hell isnt an economic thing to do. It is my belief that our brief as pilots is the safe and efficient movement of aeroplanes and the people within - carrying fuel in the manner described satisfies neither of those elements in my opinion. And I am not a "captain vapours" type person either before you have a crack at me. First, I agree 100% with the above quote. The Tempo was forecast 2 hours after our arrival. All en-route possible alternates were CAVOK. i.e. Sydney, Coffs, Tamworth, Gold Coast etc etc etc. and they remained that way whilst we were en-route. Additionally we had sufficient fuel to either return to the Gold Coast OR as we did continue onto the Sunshine coast, so please explain why I would load a few more tonnes of fuel to satisfy your reading of a legal "cop out"? Has common sense been completely replaced with platinum plated arse covering? |
That said, given the (in)accuracy of BOM forecasting these days, it'd probably be a good idea! CAR 224 sums it up..Strict liability means it is all yours when it goes wrong. So fuel equals time. Desks never run out of fuel, so it matters little what you friendly fleet 'token' manager says... An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability. Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code . (2) A pilot in command of an aircraft is responsible for: (a) the start, continuation, diversion and end of a flight by the aircraft; and (b) the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time; and (c) the safety of persons and cargo carried on the aircraft; and (d) the conduct and safety of members of the crew on the aircraft. |
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