I'm sure there will be a lot of interest among VA crews to head to QF, but let's not forget that QF still have a pretty stringent recruitment process to negotiate, and it's not just a case of draining one company's resource group to expand another.
People will apply, some will succeed and some will not. So i don't think it will be quite as simple as Tiger pilots, or VA for that matter, telling their company to shove it cause they're off to QF....they have to get in first! I am intrigued at the prospect of QF potentially not having enough interest among its SO ranks to fill required vacancies on the 737 when people start moving around. Is that a possibility and does anybody have any idea what the company approach is in that example? Can they force people onto the 737 in reverse order of seniority? |
I am intrigued at the prospect of QF potentially not having enough interest among its SO ranks to fill required vacancies on the 737 when people start moving around. Is that a possibility and does anybody have any idea what the company approach is in that example? Can they force people onto the 737 in reverse order of seniority? |
Thanks Slezy9, I didn't know that.
Well then, interesting times ahead for everyone I guess!! |
As I understand it, there isn't any requirement for QF mainline to fill vacancies with Qlink or JQ guys. QF isn't going to cost itself money by doing this if it doesn't have to. This is a shrewd business that has been around for donkeys years. They know what they are doing and they do it well. No fanfare, no carry on, it was seamless last few times I flew with them.
Those QF group 787's were bought at dirt cheap prices and there was also massive delay compensation to factor into the running costs. If you think QF are unstoppable now, just you wait til the 787/320NEO delivery starts! Didn't know that about ANZ, I do know from a mate at CX that Direct Entry FO positions have started up again. EK? It's crazy, they can't get anyone to go there anymore. Probably need to wake up to themselves a bit. More money in Asia, similar time zone AND days off are at home as opposed to less money and days off in the Middle East. Probably suited more to Ryanair type guys as the time zones and distances aren't as huge. Having said that it's not commutable from what I read. ME airlines haven't realised that most guys have worked out that their money and conditions aren't as life changing as they were years ago. Life changing money is available in China, not the ME. Korean or China Southern a great example: big money and basically live anywhere in the world. A mate with a narrow body command and widebody FO time just picked up a 777 command with CSA and he's deciding which part of the world he wants to live in. Apparently you can also swap rosters and do one roster in Melbourne next in New York. Not sure how true that is. The Longreach guys reckon the Chinese carriers haven't even started recruiting. What you see now is tip of the iceberg. He said conditions are rapidly improving. Reverse rostering, business class travel, command upgrade program for FO's and not to mention triple the take home pay of the Australian jobs. I guess the really big stumbling blocks for most guys are the medical and the uncertainty. Still seen as risky by many in my group. Having said that "fortune favours the brave"... And I've never been brave LOL!! I get less brave the bigger the family gets, single me would have been gone years ago. Don't know much about the bond, but if you don't intend to leave it shouldn't worry you. Guess they are trying to protect themselves from a pilot doing the endorsement and resigning a week later for a job with Hainan. From that point of view I kind of get it. |
I am interested to know why they (both Air NZ and Qantas) can't get SOs to go to FO on the short haul fleets? I would have thought a window seat and getting to actually do some Takeoffs and Landings would have been attractive, but obviously not...
|
Lifestyle, Slezy. I think on the 74/38 with QF the money is good but the 330 isn't. So 330 SO's tend to go across to the narrow body. Don't know about ANZ would assume the same. Not sure what the deal will be on the 78. I'm told from friends that were narrowbody FO's and moved up to widebody as FO's that narrowbody work is hard yakka compared to the long haul.
Had a mate was senior SO 74, did the MOU thing with a command at JQ. In the end went back to QF as an SO I think 380. Reckons similar money and a better life. |
Originally Posted by Berealgetreal
(Post 9480644)
Lifestyle, Slezy. I think on the 74/38 with QF the money is good but the 330 isn't. So 330 SO's tend to go across to the narrow body. Don't know about ANZ would assume the same. Not sure what the deal will be on the 78. I'm told from friends that were narrowbody FO's and moved up to widebody as FO's that narrowbody work is hard yakka compared to the long haul.
Had a mate was senior SO 74, did the MOU thing with a command at JQ. In the end went back to QF as an SO I think 380. Reckons similar money and a better life. |
I find it hard to believe they would send a qf SO for a command at Jetstar. If so, there is something wrong with the system at Qantas.
|
Was a pretty senior guy, had FO narrowbody seniority from memory.
|
Originally Posted by Slezy9
(Post 9480653)
Perhaps both QF and Air NZ are paying SOs too much!
If they weren't paid decent money they wouldn't hang around for 10-15 years waiting for a window seat. They arent inexperienced guys fresh off the street. If you want decent people to work for you, you need to pay them accordingly. They also give the company a vast pool of pilots who are already up to speed with the operation to upgrade when they are needed. In my opinion these guys aren't paid enough. Anyway back to the original topic |
Originally Posted by Brown Cow
(Post 9480684)
Most SOs are already highly experienced before they join the company. Most come from the military or regionals and all have a heap of command time.
If they weren't paid decent money they wouldn't hang around for 10-15 years waiting for a window seat. They arent inexperienced guys fresh off the street. If you want decent people to work for you, you need to pay them accordingly. They also give the company a vast pool of pilots who are already up to speed with the operation to upgrade when they are needed. In my opinion these guys aren't paid enough. |
SOs are already highly experienced before they join the company. Most come from the military or regionals and all have a heap of command time. If they weren't paid decent money they wouldn't hang around for 10-15 years waiting for a window seat. They arent inexperienced guys fresh off the street. If you want decent people to work for you, you need to pay them accordingly. They also give the company a vast pool of pilots who are already up to speed with the operation to upgrade when they are needed. In my opinion these guys aren't paid enough. Anyway back to the original topic It's a shame because career-wise, a few years in a window seat flying a narrow-body 50 sectors a month does wonders for one's flying skills and job satisfaction. But many are not prepared to take the massive pay cut to do it. Some suffer later in their career when they don't make the grade for an upgrade because they've let their skills lapse irrecoverably. That is very sad, both for the individuals and the Company. Personally, I don't get it. I became a pilot to be a pilot, not an S/O, and money takes a back seat. But statistics show that many don't share my outlook. Most new S/O hires from this point on won't be on such generous terms (the B787 terms are different in overtime payments), so I guess we'll see if your argument holds weight with a lack of experienced pilots applying for QF. |
Originally Posted by Berealgetreal
(Post 9480614)
As I understand it, there isn't any requirement for QF mainline to fill vacancies with Qlink or JQ guys. QF isn't going to cost itself money by doing this if it doesn't have to.
1. Qantas group policy is that all vacancies are advertised within the group. Of course whether that will suit the powers that be if 9/10 QLink drivers apply to mainline is something that remains to be seen. So at this stage being in QLink may actually be an advantage. 2. If QF bias away from our own regionals then it's likely we'll simply lose those pilots somewhere else anyway- EK or the VOZ group. It may cost some $$$ in double training if we take regionals but we are likely to have to double train anyway if we don't take them. |
Originally Posted by Open Descent
(Post 9480581)
I am intrigued at the prospect of QF potentially not having enough interest among its SO ranks to fill required vacancies on the 737 when people start moving around. Is that a possibility and does anybody have any idea what the company approach is in that example? Can they force people onto the 737 in reverse order of seniority? The issue is that when there's been no recruiting for 7 1/2 years people have geared their pay, lifestyle, family, etc around what is now. They're in their early to mid 30s, kids, big mortgages, etc. Certainly going to the 737 for ex 767 F/Os (and now A380 S/Os) isn't particularly palatable. They're holding off for the A330 or 787. The company can't force anyone to the 737. If they get desperate then what you may see is some of the crew starting from last Tuesday onwards may get a very early F/O slot. That said, many S/Os are senior to 737 F/Os and so maybe their won't be massive swathes of movement away from the 737 F/O ranks in the short term. Interesting times. |
The simple reason that QF can't force S/O's to the 737 is that despite them all being employed by the same company (QF mainline), the 737 operates under a different EBA. It is not legal to force an employee onto a different EBA. AIPA has previously proposed merging the EBAs but QF (probably due ideolgy and costs) has never been interested in even talking about the idea. So they are left with what they have created.
That said, the respective EBA's make it possible (in practice) for direct entry to B737 F/O. And best wishes to any who gain that. It's a great job (and career). |
They're holding off for the A330 or 787. ruprecht |
Sure. Probably didn't make myself very clear that I was talking about ex 767 F/Os for those holding off for the 787.
|
Lot of junior 737 FO's and almost every SO at VA interested in applying for QF, not to mention displaced TT A320 drivers, VA Ejet & ATR crew.
Even if only a meagre amount make the cut at QF, what will be VA's response? They are losing talent and about to lose many many more and know perfectly well how much training is costing them. Their response is to make sure their employees are acutely aware by inforcing bonds and freeze periods. I predict their arrogance will be their downfall. Those in power at VA have absolutely no idea and they are going to bankrupt this company. And who pays?? QF hasn't hired in how many years? I think many have forgotton the impact on the entire industry QF recruitment creates. And now we have desperate airlines from all over the world fighting over Australian pilots. Time to step up to the mark VA management. Step up. |
And now we have desperate airlines from all over the world fighting over Australian pilots Ten Two Hundred, if you have documented proof that airlines out there are purposefully headhunting Australian pilots, I'll eat my hat and goggles. I think you'll find airlines will generally look for people who can spell pilot, and have a pulse. I see an increasing amount of Australian operators advertising they'll consider 457 applicants - interesting times ahead. Fuel-Off :ok: |
Most new S/O hires from this point on won't be on such generous terms (the B787 terms are different in overtime payments), so I guess we'll see if your argument holds weight with a lack of experienced pilots applying for QF. |
Originally Posted by skysook
(Post 9481388)
Might wanna re-think that last statement. Most Qantas cadets that have just started have in excess of 3000 hours and when the flood gates open you can bet your arse guys with 5000 hours plus, including turbo-prop command will apply...
|
Fuel-Off I agree. I don't think foreign airlines are particularly head hunting Australian pilots per se because they are superior, despite what some news articles suggest such as the Australian article the other day describing Australian pilots "as a target market, as they are well-trained, with good cross-cultural communication skills, and they are perceived to be very capable of adapting to the local culture and flying environment". If there were significant candidates available in Antartica I'm sure they would send recruitment roadshows there too.
I know this is suppose to be a negative forum, but opportunities in the short to mid term for jobs both in Australia and abroad look better than just alright and that's got to be a good thing. |
Might wanna re-think that last statement. Most Qantas cadets that have just started have in excess of 3000 hours and when the flood gates open you can bet your arse guys with 5000 hours plus, including turbo-prop command will apply... |
S/O's are intentionally paid high salaries While the QF 787 conditions amount to a kind of B Scale, I'm very sure you could reduce the terms even further and still find the number of positions available massively oversubscribed with more-than-adequate candidates. (Shhhh...don't tell management!). Such is the allure (and pay, benefits etc) of working for the national carrier and the lack of supply of similarly highly attractive positions in the Australian pilot job market. But back to the subject of Bonding. I hope the Tiger guys can get something fair and reasonable sorted. PG |
If the 787 starts replacing the A380 on some of the current long haul legs then the pay for many A380 crew may decrease markedly. If QF replace an A380 to LHR with a 787 via PER and transition the A380 instead to HKG that will start to impact things. A 787 daily from SYD and MEL to DFW to replace the A380 currently doing SYD- DFW would have an impact also. These are all options that QF have floated previously.
I don't reckon QF will be caught short of applicants in the short to medium term. |
Originally Posted by Derfred
(Post 9481430)
I never said they wouldn't. I was responding to Brown Cow who said that S/O's are intentionally paid high salaries to attract experienced applicants. That is not the case at all.
I believe they are worthy of what they are paid for the role they play in the company is what I was trying to get at. As for short haul FOs deserving more...I couldn't agree more |
Try this link instead. :ok:
|
Thanks Keg.
Looks like the Longreach fella wasn't kidding. “It’s the documentation, the work permits, the immigration, the medicals,” she said. “They say they want pilots, but there aren’t the resources.’’ |
Hello do you know if they are hiring a320 captains.
And i so where e-mail is to send it will appreciate your feedback ernesto |
Chinese contracts are good if they work out! One bloke I know personally that resigned his command to go there spent 12 months on training pay trying to get his Chinese licence issued and then was 'let go' due to paperwork irregularities, they wouldn't specify what irregularities. So, if you can get the medical and licence issued and live on the training wage and maintain the medical and licence then you could earn $25,000 per month.
|
About QF taking guys within the group from Qlink and JQ..... yes probably a few but they won't empty the place out especially now that they are desperately short on crew. That is the reason I left after 8 years, because I knew that Q400 skipper is the best you will ever get and I got that impression within the first month. Period. If they had a pathway in place to QF I never would have left.
And you can bet your arse that plenty of experienced VA 737 drivers will be applying for QF for the job security alone. No one is sure VA will still be around 5 years from now. We had a few guys in NZ turn down commands and go to Air NZ, speaks volumes!! |
No one is sure VA will still be around 5 years from now. |
I have heard that the Qantas board is exploring ways to keep group within the group such as providing a pathway to mainline during the upcoming recruitment drive. That came from a group company chief pilot, it could be bollocks, but this is a rumour network after all!
|
See my previous post at 55. Current QF group policy is that vacancies are advertised internally in the group before they are advertised externally. That is extant policy and it should apply to S/O positions also.
Whether they choose to enforce it given the significant impact it could have on the regionals remains to be seen. |
Rumoured to be half a dozen or so instant Captains to be recruited to cover the transfers to the Boeing. Two years, then to be let go!!! Anyone???
|
2 years +/-, depends on what's required. Allegedly all contract positions offered will have a fixed time. After which you can go wherever you like, or you can stay in a position that accords with the seniority you hold on the GDOJ.
|
You wouldn't be a Kiwi would you? Fuel-Off :ok: |
The buzz that the B777 FOs on command by-pass pay being offered contracts at TT is exactly that. Is/was never going to happen.
|
Add to that the attempt to extort a bond out of those considering whether they will stay or leave is just pig ignorant corporate stupidity which will bite them on the arse, big time. THERE IS NO BONDING IN TIGER. Just the pig ignorant outsiders that haven’t read the contract. |
Originally Posted by Keith Myath
(Post 9488041)
No, what is pig ignorant is the belief that you can even be bonded in Tiger. This whole thread is BS helped on by a couple of urgers pushing their own agenda.
THERE IS NO BONDING IN TIGER. Just the pig ignorant outsiders that haven’t read the contract. Are you suggesting that he/she is free to seek employment elsewhere without any financial penalty whatsoever? Or are you suggesting that Tiger are merely attempting to bluff pilots into believing there is a bond, when this is not part of the agreement? Are the answers to these questions only available after clarification in court? From AFAP briefing of 29 Jun 16: Bond and type freezes – We suggested that the Company consider reducing the length of the bond period for all pilots taking a position on the initial start-up of the B737 operation to 24 months. This can be contrasted with pilots who move onto the B737 in future having a bond/ freeze of 36 months apply, creating an incentive to take up an initial seat. Further, to encourage bidding for B737 FO positions, we suggested that the Company consider waiving the bond after the 12 month type freeze where an FO takes up a command on the A320. We note that A320 FOs are indicating reluctance to bid because they are concerned about getting their command on the A320 and do not want to be bonded for 36 months as an FO on the B737. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 12:05. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.