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-   -   How low can you go? (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/573401-how-low-can-you-go.html)

Blitzkrieger 19th Jan 2016 22:15

How low can you go?
As if Cobham pilots weren't some of the lowest paid, enjoying the some of the lowest conditions operating in one of the least supported jet operations in Australia. This bombshell was announced last week:

"The company is exploring employing pilots through an entity other than Cobham with the view of reducing costs and increasing flexibility".

Of the approximately 200 717 pilots employed by Cobham, as much as 10% are on the verge of leaving to go to a number of different airlines, and they are the ones we know of. What in the blazers were Cobham managers thinking when they threatened to outsource an already very cheap to run workforce? This is hot on the heels of a sudden management led spike in interest in the leave balance, leading to leave being allocated (a debacle in itself) and a multitude of EBA breaches, some requiring union intervention to suppress. It would seem Adelaide have declared war on pilots-again.

But are we surprised? Possible explanations being floated seem to revolve around either a fear campaign leading up to EBA negotiations, an indication of increasing management contempt for its "inflexible" staff, or an indication of what might happen post 2018. Whatever the case, this is not how you treat your staff, many of which have been loyal, long serving employees whom have been with the company since the early days of National Jet. Shame on them and what they are doing in the interests of a few dollars.

Time for another survey?

CaptCloudbuster 20th Jan 2016 00:12

Possible upside??
I post this possibility purely as I've heard it mentioned as a rumour within the QF ranks (this is a rumour network after all).

What if "the company" was actually the QF Group and the reduced costs with increased flexibility came from a new Management mindset that now sees a benefit in a group wide opportunity list with the ability for Pilots to move within all areas of the Group? A "Transformation" in mindset.

Imagine the flying currently being conducted by Cobham incorporated into QF with the Pilots on the SH award less 20%? Imagine the Cobham Pilots who already wear QF Uniforms and operate QF flights being incorporated into the QF Check and Training system.

I've heard that the contract with Cobham has lapsed and yet to be renewed? Can anyone confirm?

Slippery_Pete 20th Jan 2016 00:23

The strategy of trying to beat employees into submission pre-EBA is fraught with danger, as other companies have found out. If you wanted to get an EBA over the line, surely you would look at treating your staff well and making them feel positive about their future.

Threats, EBA breaches, and crying poor during the leadup for a new EBA will never endear you to your staff and will make a new agreement significantly more difficult to get over the line.

Try to teach your dog to sit by beating the crap out of it when it stands up and see how well that goes.

About time Australian aviation companies started spending more money on getting the right people in management.

Lapon 20th Jan 2016 00:58

Captcloudbuster, The contract hasnt expired but is shortly due for renewal. One wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt handed off to another agency (Qantas owned and yet to be established no doubt). As far as I know cobham pilots dont wear QF uniforms tho im sure that will change too. Apparently most of the 717s have now been purchased outright by QF and in a practical sense there is only group of 200+guys endorsed on the machine to operate them.
Pay is difficult to judge, sure it would be x amount less than 737 pay, but isint that less than 747 pay? Apples and Oranges argument really.
Change is no doubt on way, and hopefully for the better.

Higs 20th Jan 2016 01:33

It's an unfortunate sign of modern management practice now. It's all about their KPI's and their salary structure. Concern for staff and welfare is only as good as the regulations require.:sad:

DutyofCare 20th Jan 2016 06:03

What do you call a group of Pilots ?
Get used to it :{

Tom & Co. are as greedy as the rest & most of National Airlines bosses.

It's nothing new & you pilots need to stand UNITED against your unaccountable, unethical management > if not, the same things keep happening.

Most younger pilots have had one hell of a great run in aviation since the late 90ties, they expect the big jobs quickly & 90% seem to achieve this without a struggle !

Sometimes pilots are their own enemy, management know & exploit this time & time again :} :} :}

Stand up for equality, fairness & common decency ( ole mate Rob A from Skytrans was one such Gentleman / Legend ) > > > moreover cut down bastardising management that doesn't bare fruit :ok:

airdualbleedfault 21st Jan 2016 11:44

Cobham pilots do not wear QF uniforms but there may be another subsidiary wearing them soon. I was told only 2 of the 717 were owned outright? As far as being the only pilots endorsed on the 717, no Cobham pilot was endorsed when they took over from Jetstar, my point? Nobody is irreplaceable.
As to the title of the thread "how low can you go", I suggest you talk to a Nutwork pilot about that, and I'm guessing the total absence of any of the normal conditions associated with an airline pilots agreement (at Notwork) would be putting downward pressure on other incumbents

Blitzkrieger 21st Jan 2016 22:03

"nobody is irreplaceable"

A good point airdualbleedfault. That extends to the highest levels of management too.

It is a sad thing indeed that our safety regulator has failed to identify even the slightest link between fear for ones job security, and safety. The true contents of the correspondence emanating from management is not for posting here, but rest assured, it is full of some very threatening language specifically intended to cause fear amongst the pilots.

Flying Meat Cleaver 21st Jan 2016 22:48

From what I understand it will be a case of replacing people as they leave for apparent greener pastures! There seems like a lot of people looking at options near and far.


Blitzkrieger 25th Jan 2016 08:13

Resignations are starting already FMC, with several over the last week. Seriously tip of the iceberg.

Wombat33 29th Jan 2016 01:54

Kaos! Wheels falling off!
Blitz it seems that its not just the pilots leaving. I've just been told several managers have left or are also in the process of jumping ship! You know the writing is on the wall when even the managers want out! Sounds like the wheels have started falling off for the final time! Hope you've all got a back up plan! And Qf for that matter!


gordonfvckingramsay 30th Jan 2016 20:53

Oh dear! I have been here before and you are usually left with the managers who are unable to find employment elsewhere to perform the resurrection once the dust settles. In my experience, unable to find employment elsewhere often means unemployable.

I dobut that is the case here though.

Capt Claret 31st Jan 2016 03:09

I say Chicken Little, where are you? :zzz:

2020Balance 31st Jan 2016 03:55

The only jobs the CIA can jump over too are council jobs. The only thing the CIA care about now are their shiny new Biz jets. And what a little boys club that is becomming. I really feel for the Red tail crew. Great bunch of people. If it wasn't for gravel kits and Curfews blue tail would have its ass hanging out as well.

Icarus2001 2nd Feb 2016 12:18

If it wasn't for gravel kits and Curfews blue tail would have its ass hanging out as well.
Which is like saying, "if they didn't have all those contracts they would not have any contracts."

I don't think anyone over there is running a warm bath just yet.

Blitzkrieger 8th Feb 2016 00:03

Chicken little?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander I guess. It seems entirely appropriate to trot out the doomsday scenario whenever it suits management. Just offering a dose of reality, people are making up their own minds.

With two bigwigs in as many weeks and several rank and file going or gone, the sky might just be falling.

Capt Claret 10th Feb 2016 05:10

With two bigwigs in as many weeks and several rank and file going or gone, the sky might just be falling.
On that basis my money's on Shorten as the next PM. Ruddock's announced his retirement, and speculation has it that Truss will announce soon, and The Guardian is reporting that Robb's going too.

So that's three bigwigs. The LNP sky is falling. :zzz:

Going Nowhere 12th Feb 2016 05:51

Alliance wins new Santos contract | Australian Aviation

Was this the contract that Cobham currently have ex ADL?

If so, what does that mean for what's left of the ADL base?

2020Balance 12th Feb 2016 13:38

I guess the ADL crews apply to Alliance or Qantas mainline next week. Alternatively the local council.

Blitzkrieger 7th Mar 2016 01:15

On the eve of the arrival of the next two 717s to join the QANTAS fleet, it would seem the head office toys are now very quickly being thrown from the pram.

There is reason to believe that there will be no replacements for the recent resignations, leaving some of the east coast bases shorter staffed than has been the case previously. Requests for crews to extend duty is also reportedly on the increase, with the requisite inquisition if you decline.

The forced relocation of a number of Darwin crews has now been followed by an expression of interest for one of the recently vacated Captain positions as the result of a slightly provoked resignation in that base.

There have been numerous resignation at the top including those from within C&T, safety and HR; tell me nothing is going on. The lack of engagement or communication from Adelaide about our future has left an information void which people are filling with "what ifs". Is it any wonder most individuals you speak to (even the old wood) are, or know someone else who is actively looking around. The feeling that there is a kind of decay occurring is palpable and the outflow of people increasing.

This has to be the lowest ebb for the company to date.

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