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-   -   SIA to launch CBR (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/573363-sia-launch-cbr.html)

timboeing707 24th Jan 2016 20:50

"Reports that the service at the Wellington end is heavily incentivised by WCC and Infratil (the airport owners) so will be interesting to see how long this lasts..."

$9NZ$ per passenger and the deal is signed for 10 Years. The money comes out of a fund which is there to bring new business to Wellington, so no extra cost to rate payers.
Once the daily service starts the amount will be less anyway.
This amount is less than Jetstar is getting!


Best Regards

Lookleft 24th Jan 2016 21:44

Parabellum- thanks for your rather pointless statement. Based on your statements you must have Singapore airline 777 posters all over your bedroom wall as you are so enamoured with them!

Just because I don't think there is a viable market to CBR and WLG doesn't make me a "hater" of SIA. I notice their return flight from CBR to SIA departs at 23:30 local. Good luck with the noise lobby on that one point alone. International flights have been tried before in CBR and they have failed because of the lack of permanent Customs facilities and the small market.

27/09 24th Jan 2016 22:06


timboeing707: "Reports that the service at the Wellington end is heavily incentivised by WCC and Infratil (the airport owners) so will be interesting to see how long this lasts..."

$9NZ$ per passenger and the deal is signed for 10 Years. The money comes out of a fund which is there to bring new business to Wellington, so no extra cost to rate payers.
Once the daily service starts the amount will be less anyway.



Best Regards
The deal might be for 10 years but I'll bet all the tea in China (or anywhere else) that if it's not working for SIA they'll pull the pin.


This amount is less than Jetstar is getting!
Are you saying WIAL/Wellington CC are paying Jetstar an incentive?

timboeing707 24th Jan 2016 22:37

Jetstar are getting an incentive to fly into Wellington, I don't have the exact figure, I could probably get it if I made an OIA ( Official Information Act) request, but it might be commercially sensitive so they want give it out.

Singapore Airlines have said they are committed to Wellington, as they have been with Christchurch and Auckland for 30 years.

Coming to Wellington is better than have the 777 sitting at Canberra doing nothing.

Best Regards

Metro man 25th Jan 2016 00:23

Emirates fly their A380s onto Auckland from Australia and have a mini hub there, supposedly cheaper than parking them in Oz for the day.

parabellum 25th Jan 2016 05:16

Lookleft - I worked for them for ten years and the posters are B747-400! ;)

Lookleft 25th Jan 2016 08:48

Reminds me of that joke PB- How can you tell there is an ex-SIA 747-400 pilot at a party........? You know the rest.:O

timboeing707 26th Jan 2016 07:49

"Emirates fly their A380s onto Auckland from Australia and have a mini hub there, supposedly cheaper than parking them in Oz for the day."

There was a rumor years ago before they had Emirates A380s and used 777s they would have liked to send one over to Wellington for the day, instead of parking it at Sydney, much cheaper.
They were going to do it with no passengers too.

Best Regards

27/09 26th Jan 2016 08:02


timboeing707: Jetstar are getting an incentive to fly into Wellington, I don't have the exact figure, I could probably get it if I made an OIA ( Official Information Act) request, but it might be commercially sensitive so they want give it out.
So effectively you're saying Jetstar are getting a subsidy to compete with Air New Zealand? If that's the case I can't figure some of the airport companies out.

timboeing707 26th Jan 2016 22:57

"27/09 So effectively you're saying Jetstar are getting a subsidy to compete with Air New Zealand? If that's the case I can't figure some of the airport companies out."

Yes!.
Just so you know to the Jetstar Regional services that are starting are subsidized by the towns local ratepayers eg Palmerston North, Nelson, Napier.
Jetstar basically held a bidding war between the councils in New Zealand to see who would stump up with the most $.
Most of the Regional centers had to bring Jetstar in or Air New Zealand were going to cut services to them, Air New Zealand were not going to give up if Jetstar moved in.

Best Regards

27/09 27th Jan 2016 01:56


timboeing707: Just so you know to the Jetstar Regional services that are starting are subsidized by the towns local ratepayers eg Palmerston North, Nelson, Napier.
Jetstar basically held a bidding war between the councils in New Zealand to see who would stump up with the most $.
Most of the Regional centers had to bring Jetstar in or Air New Zealand were going to cut services to them, Air New Zealand were not going to give up if Jetstar moved in.
That's bizarre!!!!!

Councils and airports keep putting up their airport fees and make it harder for the incumbent to operate at a price the public are prepared to pay, yet they'll bend over backwards to subsidise a new entrant competitor. Really weird thinking. If the market was there the competitor wouldn't need any help.

I think you'll find the regional places Jetstar are going to were never in danger of having services cut.

Taildragger67 27th Jan 2016 17:56

Airports paying for LCC traffic
 

Originally Posted by 27/09 (Post 9250061)
That's bizarre!!!!!

Councils and airports keep putting up their airport fees and make it harder for the incumbent to operate at a price the public are prepared to pay, yet they'll bend over backwards to subsidise a new entrant competitor. Really weird thinking. If the market was there the competitor wouldn't need any help.

I think you'll find the regional places Jetstar are going to were never in danger of having services cut.

It's worked out pretty well for Ryanair for years now! (Europe rather than NZ but similar model.)

timboeing707 27th Jan 2016 21:59

"I think you'll find the regional places Jetstar are going to were never in danger of having services cut."

Yes, Air New Zealand was going to cut services to Palmerston North, now Jetstar is going there they are buying new aircraft and doubling services.

I am not sure if you remember the Kiwi Airlines V Air New Zealand War, Air New Zealand beat Kiwi Air into the dirt, and now they have nothing to do with "no frills travel" eg Freedom air, and Hamilton has no International flights.

Air New Zealand Lives for competition, if there is competition they kill it, if there is no competition have a monopoly and price gouge.
Hopefully with Jetstar coming into the regional market in NZ and possibly Qantas this will rattle ANZ.

Best Regards

Water Wings 27th Jan 2016 22:10


Yes, Air New Zealand was going to cut services to Palmerston North, now Jetstar is going there they are buying new aircraft and doubling services.
Ummm......Palmy was never in any danger of losing services from Auckland and Christchurch, the opposite has been the case for a longtime with increasing frequencies and upgauging over the past few years. Routes to Wellington and Hamilton are a different story and time will tell if (once the Beech has gone) the market adapts to the new timetable.

timboeing707 27th Jan 2016 22:40

Waterwings for your benefit.

Before Jetstar Regional

Air NZ announces regional network cuts | Stuff.co.nz

After Jetstar Regional

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...egional-routes

Point taken with the B1900s, they were horrible anyway! No match for the Saab 340

Best Regards

27/09 28th Jan 2016 04:53


timboeing707: I am not sure if you remember the Kiwi Airlines V Air New Zealand War, Air New Zealand beat Kiwi Air into the dirt, and now they have nothing to do with "no frills travel" eg Freedom air, and Hamilton has no International flights.
Very aware of Kiwi and its demise. While some of the "blame" can be laid at Air New Zealand's door Kiwi didn't help itself either.

Actually Air New Zealand still does no frills travel. When you book you have a choice of various seat options from seat only (no frills option) right through to all the bells and whistles.

Hamilton doesn't have international flights not because of anything Air New Zealand did to Kiwi but because of Hamilton's proximity to Auckland with more options time and destination wise.

Virgin tried operating internationally out of Hamilton for a while, assisted by a council/airport authority "subsidy" but when the subsidy ran out the flights stopped.

Air New Zealand tried it out of Rotorua but couldn't make it work even with financial support from the Rotorua ratepayers.

As I said earlier if the service needs financial support from the local council to be viable then it's not likely to ever to stand on its own two legs.

I'll also repeat what I said earlier

Councils and airports keep putting up their airport fees and make it harder for the incumbent to operate at a price the public are prepared to pay, yet they'll bend over backwards to subsidise a new entrant competitor. Really weird thinking. If the market was there the competitor wouldn't need any help.
It doesn't make sense to me. There must be some good spin doctors at JQ

27/09 28th Jan 2016 05:04


timboeing707: Waterwings for your benefit.

Before Jetstar Regional

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/6...work-cuts.html

After Jetstar Regional

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...egional-routes
The first article you reference actually talks about increases to many destinations including those where Jetstar are going to;


Stuff 11.11.14: Other towns experiencing increased demand, including Kerikeri, Whangarei, Tauranga, Hamilton, Rotorua, Gisborne, Taupo, Wanganui, Palmerston North, Blenheim, Hokitika and Timaru, were the winners of today's restructuring.
None of the towns that had services cut have had the benefit of a Jetstar service. I wonder why.

So far as the second article goes, do you seriously believe the ATR purchase announced in Nov 2015 happened as a reaction to Jetstar. These sorts of decisions are not made over night

XPT 28th Jan 2016 05:26

AFAIK the only international flights in/out of CBR before except charters, was FJ CBR/NAN twice a week with little notice. CBR/NAN could work esp with connections to LAX & SFO.


No stupid curfew at CBR whatsoever. You can land takeoff anytime of day.


Why was billions paid in Sydney Noise Tax ? Where did all that money go ?

XPT 28th Jan 2016 05:29

the so called brains trust at QF is on permanent holiday, otherwise QF would have done SIN/CBR/WLG before SQ.


Good on you SQ. Hope it works well.


Looking at other options for WLG flyers to Europe .........


all 3 flights minimum.


& who wants to change terminals at awful AKL (as bad as dodgy SYD)


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