they only need about 0.1% of the business & small business market. eg. So many reps spend an extra 4 hours while being paid to eg. get from MEL to Parramatta. Some companies send their reps interstate every week for day trips. Add it up & that's an enormous saving of time & money, which ere way you look at it, esp, when you consider some sales reps inc drug reps are on packages worth close to $200k a year plus, when take into a/c their sales target bonuses.

So the regulator reckons this is a private operation? :confused:

Refer also closed thread: http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...-aviation.html

think they might have gone for aircraft with 2 few seats. Economies of scale must be awful.

Not sure what the largest jet under 20 tones is ?

I don't see how it will save that much time for the average business traveler.

Firstly, the slower cruise speed will surely negate some of the time saved on taxi out and holding.

While Essendon is certainly closer to the Melbourne CBD the travel time on the freeway between YMML and YMEN is not that long so it's hardly a huge time saving.
Bankstown on the other hand is a loooong way from Sydney CBD along the dreaded M5 East which is bumper to bumper from 3pm till 7pm most days as best I can see. You would need to allow an extra half hour on the journey to YSBK than to YSSY from either Sydney or North Sydney CBD's.

But the biggest issue I see is the lack of frequency. You can't just turn up and go. You must have booked for a particular time and if you miss that service it could well be 3 hours until the next one. And knowing this, would you dare turn up to Bankstown 15 minutes before the flight? No, you'd have to plan on being there early as the unpredictable traffic situation could turn a 10 minute delay into a 3 hour delay into Melbourne.
On Virgin or Qantas it barely matters if your meeting goes 30 minutes over time and you miss your flight, there is another one in 30 minutes or at worst, an hour later.

With only a small number of flights a day and long gaps inbetween the convenience of "turn up and go" is not really there. That is a huge advantage the incumbents will have over this operation when it come to saving time.

From where I live (near Melbourne) I will beat you to the Gold Coast flying my 165 kt machine than if you take RPT.

By the time you:

Drive the car to Tullamarine: 45 mins
Park the car and get to the terminal: 20 mins
You'll have to be at the terminal 1.5 hours to 45 mins before your flight split the difference: 65 mins
Flight time: 90 mins
Pick up your bags at dest: 30 mins

They've got a Kingair. Whether these guys can get this point across is another thing. The Australian RPT traveller is a dunce compared to those in the US. Fractional works over there, they're not as hung up on lounges as Australians.

And all of those figures are pretty conservative. If you miss your flight on an airline, unless you are flexi fare (loads more for the fare) it's gunna cost you a small fortune, last minute, to hop on the next flight. The food in the lounges is pretty average, you can't hook into the piss if you are driving at the other end so the complimentary booze is moot. If the punter has a think about this (which 95% of them won't) there's a fair bit of sense.

Except for this....

"Remain outside Controlled Airspace, clearance not available!"

Is that all you've got? Weak argument if it is, you don't get held outside controlled airspace when you're IFR :ok:

who wants to go to Sydney CBD ? Plenty of people don't want to go east, north or to CBD. Peak hour is where 90% of demand is. As long as they have 2 or 3 flights in peak hour that will work.

Seating
 

Those querying the comfort level must not have been in a modern King Air.

Have a look at - King Air 350i

As you can see a 350 can seat up to 14 in hug density however with 8 pax seats it is pure luxury aka corporate jet.

Also those querying speed again fast machine.

The 350 is a beast. Wether or not it's the right aircraft for this role or wether this business model will work in Oz? Time will tell!


GA.

Those figures may be conservative for you but for a business traveller they are crazy.

"Have to be at the terminal 1.5 hours to 45 mins before the flight"???
Premium customers can check in up to 20 minutes before the flight.

"Park the car and get to the terminal 20 minutes???
Again, the premium corporate traveller that this operation is targeting would be getting a taxi/hire car to the terminal door or using the valet service. So zero minutes.

"Pick up bags 30 minutes"???
A huge proportion of business travellers only use carry on luggage.

And if you are entertaining the thought of spending the dollars on the subscription rates mentioned for Airily then you (or more likely your company) does not blink at paying for a Flexi-fare.

You might want to reconsider your times there. On your own figures I've got the jet beating you by over an hour already and that's not considering how long it takes you to drive to your local airport.:rolleyes:

GA only really beats RPT over a short distance. SYD-MEL is about it beyond that the jet speed kills most turboprops/Pistons

There will always be a nagging doubt in one's mind as the safety of one's BMW or Audi parked overnight at Bankstown.....:sad:

I don't know anybody who targets arriving at an airport to check in 20 minutes before a flight. It may happen that way because you're running late.

Are you telling me that the majority of people that travel for business get a cab, limo or valet? I don't think so Tim.

How much of this market are you saying is huge?

Give me figures, what percentage?

Three letters porter- RNP. All your time saving comes to nothing if you have to divert because the vis is at 4.0km. Your average businessman does not understand the concept of visibility.

No I'm not. I don't know who Tim is but what I was saying was that "the premium corporate traveller that this operation is targeting" would use those modes of transport. This is a service pitched to a high end customer, not just "people that travel for business".

Airly has a 15 minute check-in time, so at best the time saving is 5 minutes. Not the 65 that you alluded to previously. The need to get there early would be much greater with Airly than with VA or QF as there won't be another flight 15/30 minutes later. More like 3 hours later.

I don't know what you are asking there precisely. But, as I said above, this is pitched at the type of customer who would regularly travel business class. All business class fares are fully flexible (I believe), so of this customer segment I guess the answer is; 100%.

Tim "the toolman" Taylor. Home Improvement? Where were you in the 90's? :p

That's it z :ok:

All I'm saying is there is a segment of the market that this could work in. I'd love to see it work, it's a good concept. Do I think it'll work? Probably not. But the numbers I've quoted you DO work.

I'd like you to tell me, which punter sets the alarm the night before their flight, plans the car trip to be stepping onto the pavement 20 minutes before their flight leaves? Pure bull****.

isn't this the same business model as gym memberships ?
the only way its going to make money and have enough capacity, is people are just paying for the membership and not flying as much as they think they will.

looks like you can book a seat 30mins before it departs, and no security screening etc.
i can't see it working for SYD<>MEL unless they get a jet.

i can see it working for SYD<>CAN with people needing last minute flights, the flight-time should be about the same same as a dash8 , maybe even the junglejet or 717, as only 8 pax to load, which would make up for any slow cruise time in the kingair.
would need to do at least 4-5 sectors a month to break even compared to booking a business sector at the last minute. then add your amount of 'time' saved, cabfare/uber/hirecar and work out some pretend value for that.

the membership tiers are interesting, www.flyairly.com/faq/
based on how many seats you can book at a time, on the monthly fee.
and to bring a non member for $1500/$1000/free return, depending on tier, not sure if there is a cap for that a month.

good time for a startup with oil heading south to $20/barrel

as usual, it will come down to the beancounters of the company looking after corp travel. i would say this would be more targeted to non CxO's , more middle/upper management or sale rep, folks that can book a business class fare for their role.

loss of earning status credits would be a bigger deterrent compared to frequent flyer points, then again the business usually doesnt befeint from the frequent flyer points (im guessing people that actually use the points for business/company travel is close to 0%) , but may benefit from the status points, if the employee gets free lounge access, and possible change of fare without penalty if they miss/change a flight with a higher status level.

/2cents

Wooski,
The gym membership analogy is exactly what I thought of when I first read this. Think back to the 80s when thousands signed up for an offer too good to be true. In the end the balance left over wasn't enough to pay for the soap in the showers.