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-   -   Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/549457-air-niuginis-subsidiary-link-png.html)

NCD 14th Feb 2016 00:21

F28 to F28 "buddy start"...interesting stuff.

Anyone found an article on F100 to B737 NG "buddy start".

Reminds of things you don't want to hear in the flight deck..
....."Wonder what will happen if I do this?", ....How's about we just give this a try"....."just a second more", ....."OOPPPS".

Kiwiconehead 14th Feb 2016 01:56

It was practiced by Ansett in the F28 days - apparently developed by Ansett.

PX asked Fokker about the buddy start option and got blank looks., so copied Ansett's

The F100 buddy start system was developed a few years ago as a solution to flat batteries and APUs not working.

mauswara 14th Feb 2016 08:32

I did a "buddy start" (donor a/c!) betwixed f28's in Rabual,decades ago.I don't recall the procedure in the F100 OM?? I may be wrong. But F100 to NG, WTF is this,an episode of "Bush Mekaniks"??? Lukim Yu , Maus

balusnomore 14th Feb 2016 10:52


Doff's me hat to you, never come across or heard first hand of someone who has done a "Buddy Start" between two jets ...Never seen any written procedures in any Jet I've flown (not saying it can't be done, of course - the articles posted state it can.)

In this latest case, and in this day and age, would wonder if a written procedure might be needed ...Interesting what input might have been given by Fokker/Boeing/Rolls Royce/CFM International.

Anyway...anyone know if the F100 is still on the ground, or did it make it back to JAX.

And mauswara
Lukim Yu as well sir

Musta 14th Feb 2016 23:20

I have done between 2 f100's. Engineer fits mount to left engine bleed valve runs ducting to other aircraft just like air cart. It diverts the bleed that would be used for a cross bleed start. Took about 30mins to 1 hour for engineer to fit.
Would think same for f100 to 737

ad-astra 15th Feb 2016 01:48

Rescuing F28's with the buddy start equipment was pretty common in my day. Hardest part was taxing close enough for the hose to reach but far enough away to be able taxi out after coitus.

Bit like life really!

olderairhead 17th Feb 2016 20:05

Finally received a breakdown of the buddy start and ferry flight. This no doubt will raise a few eyebrows.

Boeing 737 broke in Honiara.
Fokker was sent with NASA (sic) engineers to rescue it.
Problem apparently Boeing wouldn't start
NASA geniuses (sic) decided a good idea would be to buddy start the Boeing using the Fokker. (Buddy start is a standard procedure in F28 world and became so in F100 world --at least in PX)
Buddy start was only ever done Fokker to Fokker--i.e. same engines.
NASA (sic) decided that WTF it would be the same and hooked it up to the Boeing.
Opinions differ as to whether this minor detail was told to RR
Somehow the F100 over temped for a good 10 secs or more during this process.
After the damage was done it was decided to ferry it back to POM because it was "too costly/inconvenient to do engine change in HIR".
Allegedly RR were in the loop for the ferry flight and it flew to POM.
Everyone connected to the proceedings is avoiding comment
Engine was replaced.

Jock p 20th Feb 2016 12:02

Air Niugini has ordered four Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft at the Singapore Airshow. The previously unidentified order adds to the Papua New Guinea national carrier’s fleet of Next-Generation 737s and 767-300ERs.
“Papua New Guinea is like no other place on earth and the 737 MAX will allow us to economically and efficiently connect our beautiful country with the rest of the world. The superb economics of the 737 MAX will enable us to increase flight frequencies and develop into new markets which offer significant opportunities for Air Niugini,” Air Niugini chairman Frederick Reiher said. “As our region continues to grow, the 737 MAX is the perfect choice for Air Niugini positioning us for success and ensuring we continue to provide our customers with the best experience possible. We look forward to receiving our first airplanes in 2020.”
Air Niugini flies a domestic network of more than 25 destinations from its Port Moresby hub, as well as numerous international routes across Asia-Pacific, including Australia, Singapore, Indonesia, Fiji, Philippines, Solomon Islands, Hong Kong, Vanuatu, Japan, and in the near future, China. :D

balusnomore 21st Feb 2016 01:20

Jock p

Wouldn't be clapping my hands too quickly....might be just like the order for 2 X 787's.....oops Cancel, Cancel!!!

Duck Pilot 22nd Feb 2016 06:01

Has the 787 orders been cancelled?

What about the supposed DHC8 fleet replacement with ATRs, is that still on the table?

I believe the 737 Max would be good for PX.

Kiwiconehead 22nd Feb 2016 06:32

What about the supposed DHC8 fleet replacement with ATRs, is that still on the table?
That has been on and off for years - depends on who is in town buying the board lunch at the time, Bombardier or ATR

Duck Pilot 22nd Feb 2016 07:45

Fact is that the ATR is a more flexible machine for PNG long term now that Bombardier have stopped manufacturing the DHC8-200s.

Vicking Twin Otters may even be a plausible solution if PX want to continue to go to places such as Chimbu. It would be a good spinner in terms of training, financial return and satisfying the grass roots people in the rural under serviced remote locations. Air Niugini is PNGs national airline owned 100% by the citizens of PNG.

Salesmen talk actually opened up Chimbu to PX with the DHC7 🇵🇬🇵🇬🇵🇬🇵🇬

balusnomore 22nd Feb 2016 10:08

Has the 787 orders been cancelled?
Mate, the 787 deal died back in my day, couple years ago...believe that the Max was the way out...AND yeah, looking at the route structure, the MAX will be a pretty good fit. Especially Japan, Singapore etc where the extra fuel will help when CNS is POM ALT in the Wet Season

Next question is what will replace the ageing 767's. PNG need the freight capability that the MAX can't supply.

Guess we are taking two companies though, Link and Pixie.

olderairhead 7th Mar 2016 01:03

With the court case about to be heard, pilots from both groups met with the lawyer to be briefed. Two interesting things eventuated from the meeting:

1. Any decision reached by the court will only apply to the plaintiffs (ie Only those pilots who are signatory to the case). Meaning if the decision is in favour of the pilots then those pilots who did not sign will remain on A and B scale and the new contract conditions and those that did sign will revert to the original contract pay and work conditions.

2. A resolution was passed that it is the policy of NAPU and PNGAPA that pilots should politely decline from working on RDO's. Obviously some are being greedy to the detriment of others.

Interesting times ahead.

olderairhead 8th Mar 2016 19:56

The court case begins.

The "directions hearing" is scheduled for 16 March 2016.

olderairhead 28th Mar 2016 22:49

Update from paradise.

The directions hearing was held on 16 March.

PX legal said they were not aware of the case and asked for an adjournment - refused!

The Judge asked them “what happened at mediation?”
“It failed your honour”
“Why did it fail?”
PX—“don’t know”

Judge perused the Mediation Certificate and report and announced that the Mediator had written a note in the report that in his judgment, PX treated the whole process “in bad faith”—essentially meaning that PX had no intention of coming to any agreement.

The next step is for Lawyers to prepare submissions outlining the case.
Firstly, PX must prepare submission explaining why they did what they did .
(enforcing the un-negotiated contract etc. etc.)
Then pilots Lawyer must sight this and respond.

Submissions to be in court on 7th April, which will be the first step of the case proper.

Further updates as they come to hand.

kumul1 29th Mar 2016 10:05

Sounds like a standard PX answer.

olderairhead 31st Mar 2016 00:54

New contract hidden benefit.

Latest is that take home pay has reduced between 7% and 8% under the new contract as the exchange rate has changed, on top of the original 20 - 30% paycut.

Troops are not happy - not that they were anyway.

olderairhead 5th Apr 2016 23:07

The knife is out again.

Q400 pilots are being made redundant, first one was advised yesterday with the rest being called in.

Is it a coincidence that the court case starts tomorrow?

balusnomore 6th Apr 2016 02:28

Last time PX made guys redundant (late 2014) just about everyone of the "redundees" got an invite for a PX interview......BUT with loss of seniority and, of course the newer LOW "B" scale salary the offer.

In this current situation would have thought PX would simply move the Q400 pilots to the chronically short Fokker fleet......but of course that fleet does not have the training capacity.

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