Has anyone told AJ yet? And come to think of it, there's a pattern here of airlines managed by people called Alan/Allan giving themselves payrises while the company burns around them.

Well John,
if your senior management had have supported the "Industry" instead of your own self centered agenda, maybe, just maybe, CAsA may have been checked. Its eventually going to come back and bite you on the ass, but by then there will be no GA left to back you up.

Think Broome air services had there 1900 with them as well

If any of the Vincent pilots are interested, Skytrans will be hiring 3x First Officers for their Cairns base, starting mid July. :ok:

Qantaslink on white charger is riding in to save stranded passengers on some NSW routes with "rescue fares".

Anyone with fares booked through a credit card can of course go to the card company and reject the charge due to non delivery of goods/service as happened when Ansett fell over.

QF Industry release follows.

Best all EWL

Qantas today announced it will provide special relief airfares for customers impacted by Vincent Aviation going into receivership.

QantasLink CEO John Gissing said the airline would do what it could do assist impacted customers.

“It’s regrettable that another regional airline has gone into receivership, however as the national carrier we will help the community where we can,” Mr Gissing said.

“Effective immediately, discounted relief airfares will be offered to customers who hold a valid Vincent Aviation ticket between Narrabri and Sydney.

"We understand how important access to air transport is to regional Australia, especially for medical and business purposes.

Vincent Aviation customers in Narrabri who currently hold a valid ticket will be able to book a discounted relief airfare from QantasLink’s closest ports, Moree ($96 one way) and Tamworth ($82 one way).

Impacted customers can access the relief airfares via the Qantas Contact Centres on 13 13 13 or at Qantas Airport Sales Desks.

Following the collapse of Brindabella Airlines in December 2013, Qantas immediately offered discounted relief airfares for impacted customers.

Background:

Vincent Aviation went to receivership on 28 May 2014
Vincent Aviation took over the Narrabri – Sydney route following the collapse of Brindabella Airlines in December 2013

Oh no. Toodogs you've mentioned the S word! Now we shall await the thread drift from cactus!:uhoh:

this is just free advertising for QF link, filling aircraft, which would otherwise have empty seats.


Big discounts ? Probably less than $1.

'S Word?'. Too many to choose from-
Savaloy?
Symbiotic?
Septuplets?
Sled?
Semen?

I spent quite a bit of time on Vincent's 146 and SAABs last year, supervising charter contracts. Peter was pushing hard for more and more, offering rock bottom, market penetration prices while the broker made substantial profits. I knew little about the smaller NT operations in recent times (I was there when they flew into Suai though) but Peter was pushing hard for higher utilization of the 146 and Saabs on the east coast. Peter struck me as a genuine guy, but I think that relying on brokers to do your bidding, while flying in crew from NZ and offering limbo-low prices was completely unsustainable. We have too many players fighting over minuscule profits, while being hampered at every turn by glacial, inflexible regulation and ripped off by sharks who have no interest in the future of the industry.

I wish all the retrenched crews the best of luck for the future.

But they had good secure contracts for the B1900C/D aircraft so surely there would have been a positive cash flow?

If he was aiming for higher utilization of the Saab's why did he buy x 4 in the first place?

Wouldn't it be wise to start off with one or two then expanding?

XPT - the fare levels are in there and do not mention "subject to availability" and they are at better than good levels.

Yes - they may be on a predatory marketing jag, but it is very positive for disrupted passengers.

After all the Airline has burst and they don't need to be nice and could just say internally to the passengers "Go pound wet sand up your arse and serves you right!

Regards

EWL

Apparently the Saabs were going to supplement or surpass the 1900 on many routes at the same basic cost however that was based on NZ/FAA regs and because of an absurd CASA rule regarding the span of the main gear ratio to the strip width which I've long forgotten being back in the real world again..theres only a couple of places they can go in the NT with them..so that was a fizzer..good luck to the crews..tough place to make ends meet in Darwin..weeks rent in an apartment was the GDP of a pacific island nation and Vincent's pay wasn't exactly "industry best"

I noticed in Friday's "Australian Financial Review" an advertisement by the receiver for the company.

I presume that is the company shell, no aircraft but it seemed to suggest that it included the AOC. I thought that the AOC was automatically revoked in such cases - am I mistaken?

My understanding is that it is not 'revoked' but instead put in a 'holding pattern', of sorts until operations are ready to be started again. If there are changes to key post holders etc then it is back to square one for a number of the AOC elements.

How about the 1900's up in Myanmar?

:= Perhaps you look at NZ CAA Part 121 Appendix C.1 for your absurd rule :ugh:

Sad for all the staff at Vincent. Until recently, they were not a bad outfit.

On a positive note, rumour is that there might be a ground staff job or two advertised on Seek in the next week or so for experienced check in or dispatch type people on a contract basis initially.

all fares are always subject to availability

Vincent in receivership !!!
 

.............

....who saw this coming???

The creditors...:uhoh:

I don't think B1900s or S340s are Part 121...

Part 125, if memory serves. Less restrictive than the big boys, but still more regulated than low capacity GA.

Easy to overlook that kind of detail when moving from a more progressive country to a less progressive one. :E

FYI Part 135 is small aircraft Part 125 is Private/commercial like a baseball team with their own airplane six customers per year.

4 Holer,
You are mixing up NZ Part 125 and FAR 125. Please get your facts straight before you stick it to somebody.
Have you noticed how Australia is going to handle this --- by regulating light aircraft charter almost per NZ Part 125, even though we are going to call it Part 135. And speaking of taxiways, CASR Part 135 aerodrome standards, alone, will eliminate most rural light aircraft charter as we have known it.

Tootle pip!!

saabs are 121 aircraft in nz.

casa has been known to issue narrow rwy ops exemptions before.

sounds like Vincent OZ might have been a bit like Ansett, in that the Kiwis ripped as much out as they could before letting the Australian operation fall over.


It must be almost impossible chasing money over international borders.

............

Not quite XPT... the smart-money with Centre-Bet is on the fact that brokers used, tried to "cream too much" from the operations, given BF put out at a very cheap rate in order to get work for their aircraft.

It was widely known around darwin for about 8 weeks before the end.

1900D's are hard to run a profit on. Just when everything has been going along swimmingly for a few months, an unexpected hot section, or a planned undercarriage overhaul comes up and 6 months profits go down the toilet. Hawker/Beech/Textron/Uncletomcobillee or whatever they're called are making noises about getting their parts/service section sorted out. It's been a long, expensive time coming. Even the well run, professional 1900 operation in New Zealand has fallen foul of the parent company and is on shaky ground. Apparently, AirNZ Central thought they were going to make them a tidy profit...silly!

SAAB 340 not much dearer to run than a 1900D

Every operator who operates the 1900D goes broke in Australia.

Lovely pilots aeroplane.

Why is it every arm chair pilot on this forum is such an expert on the economics of running aircraft.

My guess is very few have ever owned anything bigger than a Cherrokee.

Speaking as one that has owned(be it with a large loan) aircraft the equivalent of the SAAB the formulae is very simple.

To make money on any aircraft doing less than 1000 hours per year, you need to have low capital or leasing cost. I can tell you the punters cannot tell if the aircraft has 10k or 2k hours, just so long as the presentation is up to scratch and the payments low.

When you get to around the 2000 hours per year then you can afford newer aircraft.

This parameter gets better the higher the utilisation hours.

My guess is that Vincent's were in the never never land of around 1400 to 1600 per year with high lease payments. The only people making money were the aircraft leasing company, and they were paid up front and held a deposit against default.

So why is this all CASA's fault or B1900 or Phfreds Whizbag 123.

2 + 2 ALWAYS = 4.

You can finangle the figures anyway you like.

You can play with "market penetration" until you're blue in the face.

You can even be a self proclaimed CASA Reg guru, but if the numbers don't work, the numbers don't work.

They didn't 2 or 3 years ago, its just amazing they lasted this long.

Pilots should be banned from the financial operating of aviation enterprises.

Folks,

By the hundreds, mostly for high capacity RPT. Great idea, adopt ICAO rules (after decades of using the US rules) then issue hundreds of concessions, because the ICAO SARPs knock out so many aerodromes to the RPT fleet.

Tootle pip!!

PS:
Gaunty.
Certainly pilots like you --- cast your mind back!!

..well!? This rumour network thing is working a bit slow this week...?

mate told me a couple weeks ago, it was all about a couple of weeks away.

seems he might be right? :(

How ironic..being put into receivership by a crook and a thief who deserves to be in jail himself

NZ Herald this morning
 

A bird in the hand?

Air Chathams Convair 580 (50 seaters)?


If Vincent NZ wound up, surely it wouldn't be that difficult to start again from scratch.


There are still 2 x Saab 340B's parked at TSV up for sale or lease.

Chathams were going to use their metro.