Lufthansa A388

Accident: Lufthansa A388 enroute on Nov 29th 2013, fumes injure 8 crew members

Interesting summation from one, in the Reader Comments from Rope's link above:

Interesting show....pity the "Truth" was kept secret ....

I have worked on many different Rollers over the years and I can say that there is a high oil smell issue.

What gets me is everyone blames the airframe manufacturer, not the engine maker or the oil maker. Go figure!

Never smelt oil fumes in flight but the amount of burning oil smoke and fumes coming out the back of the A320/321 V2500 engines on turn-arounds is like a steam train stopped at the station some times. Breathing this stuff can't be good for you and how many pilots have gone down with health issues towards the end of their careers ? Could be coincidence but who really knows.

So many millions of passengers carried each year without incident and all of a sudden this is a major issue?

There are many, many thousands of jet pilots that fly for decades without any adverse effects from this so called issue. Who is to say that those that fell ill would not have fallen ill regardless of their job as a pilot or cabin crew.

A longitudinal study into cancer rates in 6000 German pilots over 40 years found that "The mortality [in pilots] from all causes and all cancers was significantly lower than in the German population". An extract of the study can be found here Cosmic radiation and mortality from cancer a... [Eur J Epidemiol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

So based on the above study I would argue anyone stating that this is a serious issue is trying to push an agenda, and clearly is choosing to ignore facts.

Do isolated incidents of fumes entering the cockpit occur, of course. Is it a long term health issue, No. The studies support that this is not an issue, and no amount of guessing at what caused cancer in a few pilots will change this.

These pilots could have easily got cancer and other issues by being exposed to other toxic substances. As one poster said unleaded fuel is toxic, and I fill up my car every week and breath those fumes in.

Or maybe it is all because of the nasty Chemtrails:E:E:E

I think Java Dreaming, that some are more susceptible than others to chemicals and fumes. After nearly forty years of flying, I have had no ill effects, and have flown everything from the DC3 to the B747. I don't know any older pilots that have ever been affected by fumes, but that is not to say it happens. Unfortunately some people have systems that seem to develop allergies, and react, when others inhaling the same stuff, have no side effects at all. The whole world seems to suffer allergies now, that were unheard of even twenty years ago, why? Who knows.

Java, this is no sudden concern, it has been going on from 1989 to my certain knowledge. I used to be a sceptic too.

Java.
 

Java there are no studies that scientifically and accurately conclude that low level chronic exposure to TCP in ANY quantity is safe. The last 'study' carried out was the seriously flawed Cranwell study conducted some years back.There is no research to back up your statements other than that manufactured by the industry to perpetuate this cover up. Please visit the aerotoxic website if you would like more info.

fume study
 

Hi all....have not been on for some time.....but this story got me going..there was a study carried out here by the syd uni the prof's name I cannot remember but samples were taken from several a/c both international and domestic,these samples were forwarded to the US for inspection.All this was funded by the ALAEA and the AIPA.....does anyone know the outcome,might be wise to ask the unions,this was all done with the help of the BALPA.

Toxic, If you decide to ignore perhaps the best longitudinal study to date (the one I referenced above) then that is your choice. But don't be one of those people that ignore rock hard evidence just because it does not support your position.

As I said above, I agree there are instances where fumes have entered the cockpit. However I stand by my position that this is not a major issue. This is based on the indisputable fact that long term cancer rates in the pilot population are no higher than in the general population.

You can disagree all you want, but the evidence does not support your position.:)

Java... I'm glad that you have had no Ill effects...BTW when did you give up smoking ??

Sniff this
 

You've also got to contend with less life threatening onboard gases such as the good old fart;

Farts on planes among strange studies - Yahoo! New Zealand - Totaltravel

I recall a certain colleague I used to fly with who would purposely eat cabbage, beans, broccoli or a Big Mac the day before he flew with F/O's he didn't like, and he did this for obvious reasons!

But back on tropic, although studies into onboard toxicity isn't fully inclusive, there certainly is a lot of evidence pointing towards specific causes. And it would appear, as has already been suggested, that some people are more susceptible to these toxins than others, which is not entirely unusual in life.

Java
 

I think you are missing the point. The research paper you reference has nothing to do with Tcp exposure. It refers to cosmic radiation! Where is your association with what we are talking about here.

The association is that long term mortality rates in the pilot population are no higher than in the general population. If exposure to toxic fumes are such a pressing issue then surely we would see higher cancer rates in pilots. Since this is not the case then I conclude that exposure to these fumes in isolated cases are not affecting the long term health of the majority of pilots.

As I said above, I do agree that fumes enter into the cockpit at times. I also accept that some individuals are more susceptible to these fumes. I am saying that the majority of pilots work their entire career with no ill effects from these isolated events.

Oh and smoking is Bad.

Java, read my post on the 3rd Dec. I don't think you have read much on this problem. The Cranfield investigation was rumoured to have the funding removed as it was getting too close to the truth. Also read up on the sheep-dip problem of about 30 yeasr ago.

Java
 

Tcp is a neurotoxin that causes cell damage in various parts of the body. The paper you quote is no more than a statistical analysis on an unrelated subject and misses the point completely of what we are taking about here. Long term health effects of inhalation to TCP are without question. Boeing themselves say they have no idea about the possible consequences of breathing in these fumes. TCP is one of the most deadly substances known to man. It has no place even in minute quantities anywhere near the breathing air supply of a pressurised airliner. There are a raft symptoms and health implications for crew. I have spoken to dozens that have had their lives destroyed
. Java please visit the aerotoxic website you will find a huge number of testimonials and sound science based evidence to support what we are saying. I respect your taking an interest in the subject.

In Australia the aircraft which caused the highest number of fume problems was The Bae 146, it's Lycoming ALF 502 engines and Garrett 150M APU were both know to have compressor stage oil seal problems….I think the same APU was fitted on the B757 & G IV as well…..as a former 146 pilot I often encountered many fumes events and know of former colleagues who were forced to stop flying because of their own adverse reactions to the fumes (TCP).

Missing the point
 

As an engineer with over 40 years of experience (and exposure) to this stuff I have witnessed a few very good friends demise
with some sort of illness that cannot be confirmed that it was caused by engine oil contanation...but why has Boeing and Airbus gone to non engine bleed air suppelematial systems.The expouser to TCP is real and like I have said our unions have spent a lot of our money studying it and what has happened to that.In the past the airline industry used a number of toxic fluids that were unknowen to the users .....zinc chromate ,MEK and that lovely stuff we used to do nozzle washers with on the JT9D's ...we even heated this stuff for better results.I think all of us have it stored within our bodies all we need is the trigger to start the process off ...some will [unfortunally] but others will go to the grave with it.....hopefully we all will continue on till something else gets us

Has this got anything to do with chemtrails?:\