Re: different management styles

QF could learn a thing or two from Boof Lehman's leadership/management style.

Discuss.

N Monster has nailed it!
Indeed what are the 787s doing at Centre Link with Wings!
An Aircraft that offers a vastly improved flying experience, and for which business passengers will pay a premium for, flying bogans to Bali!
And Qantas announce a expensive refurbishment of the A330 fleet,flat bed business seats so the 330s assigned to Domeestic can compete with Virgin Australias product.
If the 787s had gone to Qantas, they would be operating to perth right now, with flat bed business seats!

Look at other Full service Airlines that have set up Long Haul LCCs,
Singapore with Scoot, gave them some of their oldest 777/200s,
Air Canada recently launched "Rouge" their Long Haul LCC, they had A330s in the Air Canada Fleet, and 787s coming, but they gave "Rouge" old 767/300s!
In fact why did Jetstar even get the near new and new A330s?
There is not one route they have flown Internationally, that a Qantas 767/300 could have flown!

Hey Ida Down, take it easy! I think I was one of those kids... Only I can't remember! :eek:

In the scheme of things though LAME wages are not the issue. The point of this thread is that Qantas wants Government help "to level the playing field" but I do not think they are asking the right questions. And that comes back to "vision"... "65% market share" is not a vision! Throwing away millions of dollars in excess capacity to defend the "line in the sand" is not vision, it is just bad business.

Will a guarantee help Qantas?? Short term maybe, but it will only delay the inevitable, and open a Pandora's Box for government in regard to other industries.

What should Qantas be asking from government??? OK here are some suggestions:

1) Accelerated depreciation for new aircraft... putting in more new technology aircraft will reduce cost, improve product and thus improve yields. As I said in earlier post the 787 is a game changer that can be used to; a) defend and even grow existing markets; b) improve margins; c) open & expand new markets.

Accelerated depreciation helps level the playing field against the likes of EY, EK, QR that operate in a low to no tax regime.

Accelerated depreciation allows for more investment which will keep more jobs, and thus more people paying high levels of income tax... in the long term the Government is better off because we grow the industry and retain tax paying jobs.

2) Common border with NZ would save QF maybe a couple of hundred million dollars a year.

3) Offshore immigration pre-clearance in trusted countries such as Japan, Canada and USA.... reduces cost, frees up border resources (for new International 787 routes to more places like TPE, MNL, DEL, BOM, MAA, HAN, SFO, YVR, IAH, PVG, CTU, XIY, ICN,) and can stimulate tourism and business.

4) Increased measures to reign in infrastructure costs in Australia, particularly some of the ridiculous airport charges that are just out of control... not only benefits QF but whole industry... some Government intervention here is way overdue.

5) Industrial flexibility in like markets, so no airline is disadvantaged by industrial agreements in the same market. Why should VA ground staff be on a different agreement to QF at the same airport?

But first QF management needs to be in touch with the business environment they are now in... at least then they can ask the right questions.

Why has the B787 gone to JQ? A350 & 787 Only Way Low Cost Long Haul Can Work...

hiwaytohell.

Totally agree that 1 and 4 should be the top of QF's shopping list.

Unsure about 2 and 3, apart from causing pax a bit of angst and waiting time, I struggle to see how it saves QF money (the pax airport charges are effectively a pass thru and paid by all airlines)

5 would like to see but I suspect its got far broader reaches into other areas of the economy and would be strongly resisted by a number of unions (particularly in the construction industry where each job and state has very different agreements). It is however something that the unions need to recognise when negotiating agreements with QF.

This thread has probably run its course as the original premise of Alan Joyce being unhappy that foreign airlines are manipulating the local market via subsidies to fund a domestic fare war, has now become a dreary attack from the QF haters on the wages and conditions of the staff.

It's been done to death and doesn't address the original issue. I stated, thousands of posts ago, that the real reason for Joyce's outburst was that he was within an ace of driving VA into the ground, much like QF did to AN about 13 years ago. I recall pilots recounting a conversation with Dixon, where stated that his accountants told him, to the week, when AN would go broke.

Joyce released a statement yesterday which contained thus paragraph:

Can we drop the nickle and dime analogies here? The respective a managements involved are in a slug fest that is going to reshape the entire local scene. Try to see the big picture instead if indulging in petty grievances.

Boe787,

Yes SQ gave Scoot hand me down 777s to start (much like some hand me down 717s then 330s for Jetstar)
but it has a large order for 787-8/9s that are going straight to Scoot

Scoot plans mixed Boeing 787 Dreamliner fleet - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

Fair points Capt K, however the problem is…..
Alan's definition of success is not shared by the majority of his employees.

Using your analogy of driving your competitor into the ground is not the basis that the majority of QF staff go to work for. Nor is it the 65% line in the sand bulls^&%T policy.

If that is indeed the basis for Joyce and Cliffords existence, well the problem grows even further.
If Joyce was a good leader, he would acknowledge Virgins presence and also that they have evolved into a viable competitor.
Joyce's fears have come to fruition, he can no longer act as he likes and be the bully boy, (like he did when he grounded the airline due to those pesky unions)
He has nothing in his ammunition stock piles to stop the decline. Cash was his source to destroy the opposition. Now that he can be matched as an equal on that front, well he's stuffed.
His 65% line in the sand will evaporate, if it hasn't already, he will continue to loose the high end corporate contracts, and his yield will continue to fall.
Why?
Because he is serving up a strategy and product that is complete rubbish.
The combined qantas group think of the "best two brand strategy in the world" won't lead to any recovery.
Recovery comes from acknowledging past mistakes and also acknowledging that senior managers, or "senior leaders" if you read the company spin, don't have all the answers.
Most of all, recovery requires hard work and dedication from the long suffering staff. Staff that are ready to do that, but sadly will never be embraced by the joyce/clifford bandwagon.

The government knows it, his employees know it as well.

Capt.Kremin, agreed !

However, it is disingenuous spin for anyone to say "In the competitive fight with Virgin...."

How can it possibly be competitive when one side has been
gifted 65% of the market and is 3 times the size of the other side ?

If that's Wirthless' best then she should be sacked......

More and more I hear from the man on the street that Joyce and Clifford must go. It is gaining traction.

The only street that matters is Wall St.

nikki said

which for the long term, i struggle to disagree with. the genius/idiot argument yet to be resolved for me.

why bother to negotiate with employees when you can dictate to the govt and courts what you require? he's done it once before and i'm betting he's prepared to do it again.

political will for qf's survival, he wins. no political will, the place gets bought out, chopped up and he still wins.

question is, how much do aussies love qf?

Someone who gets it! Its the TBTF model. I said many many pages ago that management are holding a gun to their own head. Rent seeking 101 straight out of the bankers playbook.

So far nothing new to report, still limboland..

And still no one knows what he wants. Does he knw what he wants? Everything he talks about, fuel price, capacity, pressue from other airlines.....I can't see that any of those things have really changed over the last year, but suddenly there is a wild panic and demands for something, but that something remains undefined.

Just what the hell is really going on?

I suspect the last few profit announcements have been shifty numbers anyway,
they are probably burning the mystical 3 billion in cash reserves now, about 2 or 3 million a day if those figures are accurate for the year. That wont last long. And he realises once that cash reserves reaches a certain lower level, credit will start not being accepted for products purchased and the depletion will accelerate. I see 3 options , Buyout aka Dixon and friends, Government assistance, or radical restructure. But by Joyces' reputation and the silence the last week or so I wouldnt be surprised if there is some radical announcement way out of left field that shocks all either..:confused:

So.....Alan Joyce says nothing will be ruled in or out.

Has he got a plan? It seems nothing concrete has been communicated to the government.

At various briefings (over the last year) crew have asked senior executives what plan B was in the event plan A didn't work.

I've yet to have heard of a back up plan.

All I've ever heard back from the likes of Clifford was, Alan's got a good plan & the full support of the board.

MC.

I agree A of A. The longer the silence is, the more left of field the announcement will be, I fear.And the way it is shaping up, it's going to be really wild.

Waren9, "How much do Aussies love Qantas"??....not enough. The figure that gets trotted out here is that 81% of Aussies travel in or out of the country on a different carrier.

I suspect with the budget woes outlined yesterday, any help for Qantas is going to have to be at no expense to the taxpayer.

So, how do you do that? And for the chorus of "sack the managers"....can you really identify enough of them to sack to save a loss making company?