Here is the story for you folks down South. There are two-400F in VictorvilleCA ex Great Wall one was recently painted in Southern Air colors last year.
Qantas went to Southern and used Southern to leaver Atlas. Southern painted the plane signed MOU with leasing company who did C check.Qantas dumped Southern and pushed Atlas $ down for a short extension.
Last week the two -400F one in great wall colors and one in Southern colors were pulled unto the Hangar at Victorville for inspection by Qantas ?
Do some googling you will see the-400F parked last year near 5x Qantas RR powered 744 pax. Hope this helps.

That's like asking if the Pope is a Catholic!

Very few mainline western pax carriers operate their own cargo planes in-sourced.

The cost structure is generally too prohibitive.

Hey Professor, what do cx, and ek do? Just wondering.
Spot the difference......

Cathay Pacific orders 3 Boeing 747-8 cargo planes - Channel NewsAsia

The Professor

No to mention Korean, Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines....

The list goes on

Hotnhigh,

My comment included the phrase “very few”. I did not wish to imply that there are NO mainline carriers operating heavy cargo aircraft.

I also included the phrase “western”. Perhaps you are unaware that neither EK nor CX belong to western countries.

Furthermore, are you aware that EK do not operate any cargo aircraft and that most cargo carried by CX is carried by Cathay Pacific Cargo, a separate company?

They are not examples of airlines in-sourcing the carriage of cargo.

“No to mention Korean, Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines....”

All three of these airlines have outsourced the carriage of cargo to separate business units and in many cases these business units utilize pilots on separate contracts.

They do not support your argument that the list “goes on”.

And of course, Singapore and Korea are not western!

I suggest you do some better research into the industry in which you apparently work!

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...-sky-cargo.bmp

:ugh:

hotnhigh,

Wow, a great picture. Very clean and tidy. And new too.

And it is operated by a company called "Emirates Sky Cargo".

It even has it written on the side!!!!!

It is a wholly owned subsidiary of EK and operates as a "separate entity" to quote their own website.

This by definition is out sourcing

Fact is the crews fly both pax and cargo on the same terms...

But operated by the same group of pilots that fly the passenger varieties.
Which of course will be impossible in qf as it doesn't fit the business model. Just ask the smartest guys in the room. I'm sure a new 'negotiated package' will be thrown out there. What a shame the 457 scheme is getting pretty close to running its course.
Yep research, its a wonderful thing.
:D:ok:

“Fact is the crews fly both pax and cargo on the same terms...”

Yes, indeed, they do. In the EK case, you are correct.

I think if you re read my comments you will notice that I did not make a claim contrary to this.

I simply stated that the carriage of cargo at these airlines has been outsourced. Some carriers such as Emirates Sky Cargo and Korean Air Cargo choose to utilize crew from their respective parent company. But nonetheless, they are operated by a separate entity with different overheads and business models.

There is a reason they do this.

“But operated by the same group of pilots that fly the passenger varieties.”

Yes, in the case of Emirates. But back to my original point. How many WESTERN airlines operate and crew cargo aircraft in house? Australia, Canada, USA, UK, Europe?

Why is that?

Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines....

LH - no cargo planes

SQ - no cargo planes

Mid 2000's Qantas used to operate a pax configured 767 SYD-AKL-CHC-SYD with only freight on board. Plus the two pilots of course.. And a flight attendant :E

The Professor

Since I work for CX.... I think I might know a bit about the company and industry that you so eloquently put....

It is not a separate company.... It is a division within Cathay Pacific Airways. It is the largest cargo division of any passenger airline in the world and it operates very successfully with mostly western crews (who fly pax AND the freighter), with a western Director of Cargo, in a former British colony.

Try keeping it civil next time and I wont have to take you back to school... Mr Professor

Cargo flying is a lot easier to outsource. As long as it gets there on time in one piece the customer doesn't care who flew it or on what terms, price is the main factor.

Mainline pilots generally won't care about not flying the worn out freighters, as long as they get to keep the shiny new passenger planes.

Management find it a lot easier to subcontract cargo flying out. If they bought in another operator on passenger routes there would be regulatory issues, instant union opposition and passenger complaints about not getting what they paid for.

A couple of cargo planes chartered in, just for the peak season of course, won't bring much opposition and can easily become more in number and permanent.

I could be very wrong but I thought that only QANTAS operates 747ER's. I have flown on the six of them at different times, incredible flights to Buenos Aires and the US.:hmm:

You're wrong Stallie - although I'll admit I thought the same.

Google it and check the wiki. There is an ER-F variant.

Zapatas Blood said

Each have their own cargo arm. LH have Lufthansa Cargo operating a sizeable fleet of MD-11Fs and SQ with Singapore Airlines Cargo with their own 744Fs. I know SQ operate their cargo arm as a completely different entity with their own crews. Thai Cargo do the same thing as do BA with BA World Cargo.

Not too sure about LH but by going with the worldwide trend I would say it would be separate crews with separate terms and conditions. I certainly don't condone what management do...still sucks :suspect:

Fuel-Off :ok:

This is just our management playing funny buggers to put pressure on Atlas to keep any cost increases negligible in the next contract agreement.

IF there was any substance in this they would just convert the 400s we have before parking them in the desert and lease them to Qantas freight as a dry lease.

They probably would lease them for a dollar per aircraft like the 330s to Jetstar so the shortfall in leasing charges and costs can be written off as a lost to the longhaul operation.

Now that wouldn't be a surprise :ugh: