History Repeating
 

Aviation historians please shoot me down for potentially being non factual here but aren't we seeing the structure of Australian aviation returning to the days immediately post regulation with the breakup of Qantas ?

1. Virgin (Ansett)
2. Jetstar (Australian Airlines)
3. Qantas International (Qantas International)
4. Qantas Domestic (TAA)

Not even the people have changed -- just the names of the companies.

All things old are new again !!!

I wonder when and how Compass will come back next ??

Would that be Tiger?

halas

ps: Totally Agree :ok:

Arkmark, true, of course Australian was TAA, actually. But none were LCC all were full service airlines, costly to run and the fares expensive. On the other side of the coin, seats were comfortable, plenty of leg room, staff were extremely well behaved, had careers, not contracts, food was edible, real knives and forks, (no one considered stabbing one another) the flight deck was accessible to kids and the curious, alike, and it was a pleasant way to fly. Progress has bought us the LCC, full security, no access to the flight deck, CC of which some have attitude, (try that in my era) they have no career, and its just another job, so one can hardly blame them at times, foreign CC on Australian aircraft, (unthinkable in my day) seamless Engineering, (no parts left these shores, everything was maintained here) but of course this is now all top heavy and cannot be sustained. Where it all leads God knows, but the fun has sure as hell gone out of it!

I agree also, but I think slightly more accurate would be:

QF International (QF International)
QF Domestic (TAA/Australian)
Virgin (Ansett)
Jetstar (Compass) - albeit a self sustaining version.

I think you're far too much from the QF split. From a passenger's perspective I don't think we'll notice any difference. It will still seem like one airline and will operate as such.

The only difference will be the way in which the office monkeys shuffle papers.

So who is East West?

There are some similarities IMHO but the overriding element is stupidity.

Stupid managers destroying airlines and politicians letting them.

Harsh??

Qantas management were handed a fully functioning airline, all assets paid for and structures in place. They didn't have to lift a finger to start from scratch like most entrepreneurs. It was floated and almost immediately they started bleating about the unfair competition they received from foreign-government owned airlines!

And what have they achieved? They have massively devalued the Qantas brand. They have shrunk the airline beyond belief. They have disenfranchised the staff irreparably. QF safety and reliability is now the subject of talk-show host jokes.

And are shareholders happy? Not bloody likely. How inept do you have to be to transform my $4.00 shares to sub-$1.00. What an absolute farce.

Qantas domestic is propping-up the whole operation (allegedly, though accounting wizardry does make me wonder whether this 'fact' is part of the much-discussed smokescreen for a bigger management plan to scare QF Intl staff and ease offshore/cheaper recruitment). So perhaps Domestic should just have been left as TAA/Australian.

Ansett under Abeles had way too many aircraft types and structural complexities to survive long-term and Murdoch simply asset-stripped. ANZ under Selwyn Cushing was the dumb-bunny that invested in a basket-case. It came close to death when Compass was airborne (which is why Abeles mate the PM shut Compass down) and when Virgin came along the whole thing just imploded. Sad but after Reg Ansett was ejected - inevitable. Really the only similarity between Ansett and Virgin is the latter occupies some of the formers' terminals.

The newbies Jetstar and Tiger are new entities. Perhaps the only smart move by Dixon as JQ is successful, but it is so opaquely backed by Qantas it's very difficult to know if this is the prime reason for its success (underwritten assets, maintenance etc). True start-ups don't have this game-changing assistance.

Tiger seems to be an attempt at a Trojan Horse by SQ to counter the Qantas assault on the Singapore market but it wasn't done very professionally was it. Hopefully they can make a real go of it now.

In each case though, the only constant is management stupidity and what gob smacks me is they keep getting away with it, with ever-larger bonuses to boot,

Just incredible.

Alliance...

Ah,Teresa Green...SO true. Wise words. Maybe add to that list. Aircraft travel was still special. Pax dressed decently,took a 'reasonable' amount of cabin baggage on board,no one put their feet on the seats or spoke to staff like bogans. I guess the 'great unwashed' traveled by bus in the olden days.

I never forgave Abeles for destroying East West, a great little airline, nor Ansett, and as for 89 the less said the better. Great when you can operate with the full backing of the current PM of the time.

Politicians have no mandate to intervene in the affairs of a publicly listed company. It is not the Government's task to save Qantas and indeed, it would be political suicide for any Government to interfere in the affairs of Qantas.

I would not want to see the current Federal Government attempt to organise a p!ss up in a brewery, let alone a major airline! :=

East-West Airlines was an Australian regional airline founded in Tamworth, New South Wales in 1947. It operated to major regional city-centres and connected these centres to various provincial capitals. It was finally acquired by Ansett and ceased operating in 1993.

Alliance had nothing to do with East West. It is the previous Queensland based Flight West Airlines, founded 1987 and acquired by Alliance in 2002.

It would also be political suicide to let 36,000 people lose their jobs Tailwind. A fact both the Govt. and the Opposition are painfully aware. Thereby lies the problem for the pollies.

I think you are missing the point Tail Wheel.

The question is "who is (now currently representing the former) East West?"

halas

Tg. If a company fails how is the responsibility of the government? I see my tax dollars used to prop up the auto industry which annoys me to no end. They didn't help ansett so why would they help qf? I hate this government but you can't hold them to account for a public company.

The federal government props up all sorts of industries with taxpayer funds. For instance, the mining sector (and farmers etc) get a diesel fuel rebate, that is, like it or lump it, a taxpayer funded subsidy to operate their bussiness, but I dont hear to many people bleating about propping up the miners at taxpayers expense.
All countries prop up private enterprise to some extent. Some people just dont want to admit that not all private enterprise, is totally private.

So there!

Diesel fuel rebate isn't really a subsidy is it?, fuel is a legitimate business expense in mining and farming, not really any different to claiming tax expenses elsewhere in business.

I might be wrong but I don't think this results in an actual cost to the taxpayer.

Halas, the closest on this side of the country would be REX.

Fred, every dollar every government spends either comes from taxpayers or borrowings.

East west = Alliance?

Pigs rectum. Alliance don't even run an airline o they? It's all charter.

Skywest would be closer to the old East West then Alliance.