Oh, Woody, where do I start? Certainly not. However, there are very few employers setting out to run a safety-critical operation with insufficient staff numbers to the point that they RELY on overtime, and lots of it, to keep the doors open. When the local plumber makes a mistake because he is tired, what are the ramifications? That'd be voluntary overtime, right? As in, different to what AsA requires, right? It's not about missing the odd family day- it's about missing every family day, because you get harassed to attend a lot (my record was 7 phone calls for different overtime shifts on a rare weekend away, after informing them that I would be away for the weekend). And they do... which is mind-boggling that anyone would resign from such a good job. I think most would agree the issue is not with the job itself (I don't know anyone who doesn't love the job ), the issue is with the employer. That's just outright bull$hit. Then again, so is muddying the waters on what the thread is about.

I'm not really going to remain here to trade blows - I've said my piece, and am happy if people want to look into it rationally and decide why they do or don't agree with me - but the first and last points from ferris there just can't be left alone.

As I have more than a passing acquaintance with the public health system, I reckon you'd be aghast if you knew how many "safety critical" things in your local hospital are being done by inexperienced, underqualified doctors; how long the nurse monitoring an intensive care patient with constant vigilance for any sign of destabilisation might have been on duty (hint: 24 hour might not be long enough); how many 2-hour operations the cardiovascular surgeon working on your Nanna might have done in a row before this one; and how many people are queuing at universities to hand over $40,000 or more to the government to do their 3-year nursing degree (or $200k or more for a five-year medicine degree) merely so they can be eligible for all this joy on a starting salary less than $50k.

None of this is forgivable or even acceptable, of course, but my point isn't that ASA is some cornucopia of luxury, simply that if you base your complaints to management (or the internet) on the idea that being an ASA employee is uniquely hard or oppressive, you won't make much traction beyond your immediate circle of peers.

That's all I mean to say, not to demean your grievances or argue with your experience.

Edit: typo

ASA has gone from Swiss Cheese to a block of crumbling Parmesan cheese, things are not getting better. The longer this bureaucratic lunacy continues the closer we come to melted cheese. Tick tock.

http://fs.christonium.com/fs_files/1...88642_parm.JPG

That's your opinion, it's valid and you're entitled to it. My opinion, I'm proud to be part of an association that has worked hard for the level of remuneration we 'enjoy' my further opinion is that we are underpaid, you compare to the emergency services, I compare to the financial services, degree qualified and destroying economies, people's futures (banksia, storm etc) etc.

There is nothing fair about a nurse, policeman or firies wages. Doesn't change the fact that ASA is playing a risky game here, they are playing a game according to excel spreadsheets that have consequences. You can piss and moan all you like and compare forever, but try comparing it to Lake Constance, not only the event but the on-going ramifications. There were identified organisational deficiencies that contributed to this.

ASA explodes at the seams with floor walkers that will present power point risk management strategies to ATC's who shake their head at the tripe. Like a pilot, sit in the chair and make the decisions, know that every single transmission, mouse click and action you take is recorded. I would love for every single employee in ASA to have every single action, every single phone call, financial decision etc to be recorded and for them to have to justify such. I would love for their performance to be assessed the way mine is.

I don't give a rats what the public perception of me is, I do give a rats when lies are promulgated in public from the managers that should be facilitating a safe and efficient service. I do give a rats when 'operational requirement' is used in a NOTAM to describe 'staff shortage,' weasel dick words from those who haven't got the courage to admit they have made a massive mistake with operational staffing.

Sadly, that is the case, which is why nothing is done about it. The few still work against the national interest, for self-interest. That's what really grates- the reasons why. It will, it seems (unfortunately), take something really bad to happen and some prison sentences before the problems are sorted out.
It doesn't have to be like this. Woody, with your vast experience of other employers (being 30 years old with 11 years of controlling experience { :cool: } ) should know this. It doesn't have to be like this.

In the mean time, the "at risk remuneration" culture rolls on.

It is that bad that many have left for other jobs, I know one who is now an ambo, there are about 15-20 guys in Germany, heaps in the middle east, and the old guys are retiring early. Hence the problem.

As long as everyone is happy to have a tired controller who has worked 20 shifts in the last 22 days working their plane, nothing will change.

Unfortunately, they end up in management. This is because we don't sack them, as this will look bad on the academy's/centre's kpi's for staff turn over. We promote sideways and these people are already disgruntled due being washed out.

An ex atc/fso does not necessarily a good manager make. I work for one.

There are students at the academy who have been backcoursed 3 times. Because mgt down there can't/won't sack them. They all try and get them support roles around the place. This explains why the ASA workforce numbers have soared in recent years and also explains the deadwood in the place.


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Think on.
 

Plane Talking – Sandilands.

Enough distraction, peoples lives are at risk, not just the passengers. Not to worry, CASA will sort it, you watch.
PS. Not many 'other' trades end up with a criminal record for a stuff up. ATS is just one of the lucky ones, bit like pilots really. Oh, Don't feed the trolls. K.

Despite Ben's efforts, the safety angle doesn't seem to be getting much traction.

Perhaps the mismanagement at Airservices might be put under the spotlight if money is mentioned? The deliberate under-staffing benefits managers and the "profit" returned to the govt, but at what cost? If somebody ran the numbers and pointed out that the cost of, say, 400 more controllers would be less costly than the amount of jet fuel wasted in airspace closures, unnecessary delays, etc. etc. in short "systemic inefficiency" driven by short-sighted, bonus-driven management goals, would they change?
The cost to the country in terms of lost productivity (think- FIFO miners sitting on the ground for longer than their flight, hoards of businesspeople experiencing delays as they hold, or detour around flow-constricted volumes etc. etc.) must be staggering. If someone put the sword to the fallacy that less controllers= national benefit, things might change.

The "silo thinking" that drives this wasteful cost shifting is old. Is good governance just beyond us anymore?

12-47

Personally I don't understand the connection at all. The skill set required to be a successful ATC is unique...we've seen people with doctorates fail. Degree quals or not have zero bearing. How many Cathay 747 captains are degree qualified?

In most circumstances I don't mind responding to a troll, some of the time what they are posting are maybe points that others are wondering about. I don't for one moment believe that woodwork is an active controller. I doubt that he/she has held a rating but it maybe good to address his/her points.

More than likely woodwork is part of the hate machine in Canberra, the jealous wannabes disconnected from the core business. One of the the 800 extra floorwalkers who's done a cert 4 in risk management?

Actually he is a current rated controller.

While post quote wars are fun I will be brief. I worked for Aussie ATC. It was a cluster fck. I am still an ATC elsewhere and it is rad. While many of the complaints are valid in this thread, from my experience, Aussie ATCs have much they should be looking at themselves to apportion blame for. This is where I would go into a tirade about spinelessness normally but I have gotta go trick or treating.

Hugs n kisses
Tobzalp

He's gunna go off driving trucks isn't he?

Dunno about that, perhaps? Certainly not a content tower controller ;)

Don't reckon I would be either, stuck out there :)

From the wikileaks links posted in other thread.

Only talks about possibility of downgrade.

US embassy cable - 09CANBERRA1081

Link to another thread but relevant
 

Living the dream Roger, living the dream :)

Remember this...

Q/ Controllers: So is there any sign that it may have arrived on some trough feeders desk yet? Or is there another delay?:{