Thanks a lot. I was expecting you to direct me to this link

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Senator+Douglas+Niven+cameron

Cameron was a Merchant seaman, a officer I believe. Who ever he is, I would like to buy him a slab. :D

Agreed. What a champ

Nope, I'm not a smart arse, like those :ok:

Final comment from Sen Cameron (to AJ) before ABC24 changed over, "you're a rogue employer!".

i am tired of the media defending a company that wants to use cheaper labor. what ever happened to yu get what you pay for?

You're a rouge employer hahahahaha

Gold!

It was qantas' "intention" to never eat into qf flying with Jetstar. Intentions mean nothing.

Round One Goes to Senators
 

our senators did a fine job in the first round. keepup the good work. looking forward to the return visit for AJ.

Looks like the next Senate election may get my first ever Labor candidate vote!

Abbott's dithering this week will hurt him.:E

Serious question.

Apart from letting everyone see what an inept operator Alan Joyce is does the inquiry have any teeth. In other words what happens at the end of it all.

Good watching Joyce squirm :ok:

Quote of the day
 

Brown to Joyce, re grounding vs lockout: "You've had a big stick behind your back, and you haven't shown it to anybody."

The next thing that will happen is the Journo's will smell blood, and go after him, and possibly the board. If they hound him, he could crack and go, its all in the lap of the Gods now, he was a shattered man this morning, and Cameron has not finished with him yet nor Xenophon. But who was the bloke putting out the dorothy dixers, the nice little questions? A stooge?

I noticed AJ said that theory's of Jetstar replacing Qantas domestic were not true. Well what about Jetstar replacing Qantas to the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast? And I'm sure there are other routes that have been replaced.

I like the tone of questioning that suggests the senate doesn't believe Joyce has no intention of shrinking mainline and hopefully the need to enforce that

Yeah I did wonder why that bloke sent down a handful of dollies. He didn't seem to have any grasp of the situation at all.

It was mentioned a pilot rang a senator during the hearing to describe being alarmed mid flight re the grounding. How do we ring them mid enquiry? I'd love to coach with a few questions on the fly.often they are on the right track but need prompting to deliver the knockout question.

This little piggy went to the chairmans lounge....
 

The art of Deflection 101 !! 'Intention' and 'intent' are phrases very popular amongst bureaucracies, executive managers and general bull**** artists.
E.G, CASA will speak of a regulation and say 'the intent' of the reg. In other words they won't be specific with what is required of you to meet the reg, and when you implement a process based on your understanding of the reg which absolutely is not clear in the first place, they can still ping you by saying you are wrong because 'that is not the intent of the reg' according to them. It is merely word obsfucating bull**** designed to cover the ass of the big player and burn the little people to the ground in an unwinable situation.

NOTE TO ALL POLITICIANS !!
To all the spineless, weak, lying, trough dwelling parasite Pollies - Please observe the actions of messrs Brown, Cameron, Xenophon, Heffernan, even Katter.
These politicians act to the best of their ability to seek the best interest of their constituents first. They understand what they are paid to do, represent the people and not bend over and grab their ankles for influential business leaders and other power brokers.

Top work, you get my vote :D

In the mean time Joyce and Qantas continue to give all of Qantas international profitable flying to Jetstar. No wonder Qantas international are not making a profit, because all the profitable routes are being gifted to Jetstar. This would also explain the continual decrease in market share for Qantas and increase for Jetstar. Net result, a continual decline in company market share because customers get pissed off with Jetstar and move to a quality carrier who are still doing the routes that Qantas used to.

I love how they recently took the Boeing 747 (with high load factors) off the Auckland-LAX route to replace it with a medium haul aircraft that is not suited to that run. The loads now are dismal. Manipultion at its greatest!! Next year, they will claim that Qantas are not making money on the route and el presto, Jetstar takes it over!

He has the gift of the gab this little Irishman. They want to fix the Qantas business? Then give the profitable routes you gifted to Jetstar back to Qantas would be a start. I see the SYD-ZQN flying is shortly going to Jetstar. Again more profitable Qantas international flying going to Jetstar. No wonder Qantas international find it hard to make a profit.:ugh:

Air Navigation and Civil Aviation Amendment (Aircraft Crew) Bill 2011; Qantas Sale Amendment (Still Call Australia Home) Bill 2011

November 4, 2011 - Part 1
As the Kelpie would say, more to follow...

I just wish Tony would answer one question directly without changing the topic. It's getting embarrassing.

Will be interesting to see how the 2000 rooms in LA pans out. Just a normal day for QF so if that is correct, we know where some of the $200m is going if that was just one night.

This was on top of UK and Singapore.

Hope the Senators dig around a bit and dont just accept the formal booking because as we all know there can be a few interim steps.

This alone showed how these guys think the public are stupid and will just accept what they say.

Brucey's answer to Senator Xenophon's request for rosters for Oct/Nov was interesting? Brucey kept raising the point of 'average hours'. Well the Senator wasn't asking for averages Bruce, he wants specific individual roster's for Oct/Nov.
May I suggest that the Asian crew's quickly grab any original rosters they have and send them through to the Senator's office, just in case the rosters are changed within any data bases.

Alan's answer to the Senators question as to whether he had any thought of grounding the airline at the time of the AGM was interesting, as AJ answered 'no'. So how could one change their mind (knowing the subsequent risks that are inevitable when such a hefty change is actioned) within less than 24 hours? And how could a risk assessment, even an impact assessment have been adequately, safely and effectively undertaken by relevant stakeholders and then signed off and agreed upon, all within a few hours?
Draw your own conclusions, but this requires urgent scrutiny.

Whats with the CP and the C Engineer giving advise on the mental state of pilots and engineers on hearing the news? Did they think they would roll around on the floor with laughter or take the crash axe to the aircraft? Did it occur to either of them that both groups would act as intelligent human beings, they would digest the info, get in touch with their unions to find the facts, and then act correctly without using the crash axe (not on the aircraft anyway). And that is his reason for not notifying anyone???????????????? No wonder Cameron is bemused.

Air Navigation and Civil Aviation Amendment (Aircraft Crew) Bill 2011; Qantas Sale Amendment (Still Call Australia Home) Bill 2011

November 4, 2011 - Part 2
more to follow...

This is all just a huge stage-play!

This whole mess has been rehearsed by the well paid actors for years!

"OK Joyce, make a menace of yourself but let us cook you on TV so we can take some heat off the carbon tax and mining tax."

We are all being played for fools. This is just like watching "Titanic" we know how it's going to end but we are enjoying, celebrating/rewarding the fine performances as the tale unfolds.

Sickening!!!!

Bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzz

I'm with ya Mr Buzzy.

Despite others views, I was somewhat appalled by some of Senator Cameron's behaviour. Using parliamentary privilege to defame Qantas as an employer and then defaming Freehills. It’s just poor taste in my view.

Sure I’m all for making someone “squirm” as a result of the decisions they make and getting passionate about the situation. I’ve watched from very close range plenty of parliamentary proceedings over many years, and I don’t even mind a bit of raised volume, but Senator Cameron was over the top, when there was no need to. There were plenty of questions to be asked of AJ and BB that could make them feel the heat.

Anyway back to the hearing, Fed Sec gave a personal story as an opening statement.

Now go to Apac on sky or on free to air. Engineers on.

I've lost my ability to view, can someone post more tube links please?

Live feed:
Parliament of Australia Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee (Air Navigation and Civil Aviation Amendment (Aircraft Crew) Bill 2011 - Qantas Sale Amendment (Still Call Australia Home) Bill 2011) (HMS 12) //n//r Friday, 4 November 2011 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM&type=1

Sadly iPhone won't play it, and with only 3G coverage can't watch on abc app...,

I used Skyfire app on iphone- can view live from The Age website

Been watching it most of the day, shame the ABC keep leaving it for other news etc, especially just now when Steve (Fedsec) was doing so well.

Loved it when Bob Brown was giving AJ such a hard time, noticed how AJ starts to stutter sometimes, when a question is asked that maybe he was not prepared for.

Just a couple of points...
Could hotel bookings include those booked through Qantas Holidays?

Sen Cameron was carrying on about the flow on effects of Qantas grounding the airline. Is it any different to the flow on effects of Union activity grounding the airline?

No, I don't work for Qantas and I am on the side of the employees.

Joyce now worth 15m?
 

I think the Senate Enquiry is very bias against Qantas.

Predominantly, Labour Senators from a Trade Union background driving their own agenda. They are are just upset that THEIR Fair Work legislation could be used in this way. In many ways the questioning and then talking over the answer has been disgraceful.

At the end of the day Joyce represents the owners of the airline and is acting the best long-term interests of the business (his job). The trade unions represent their member’s short-term interests. After listening to the responses of the Senators and the Union Leaders, I don’t think they have the intellect to deal with the complex number of issues facing QF management.

As for the timing of the grounding: The best time to ground from a booking and revenue point of view is Saturday, particularly during a week preceding a short work week. The all-important financial indicator is Revenue-per-departure.

So look at the perfect timing of the two days of grounding:
• Saturday afternoon: low volume, very poor yield
• Sunday morning: low volume, low yield
• Sunday afternoon: high volume, low yield
• Monday (with a public holiday on Tuesday): high volume, low yield

I look at the today’s action like this:
• Joyce outplayed all there (and on PPRUNE) and some don’t like the fact they have been out thought
• Goes to show the enormous complexity of running an airline BUSINESS.
• Asymmetric warfare is usually the play of the small player such as trade unions and freedom fighters. Everyone is upset about a massive company (or one CEO) being courageous enough to implement their own version asymmetric warfare

My final thought:
• Joyce worth 2m plus a promise on Friday 28 October.
• Joyce worth at least 15m on Friday 4 November

BTW, Tony Sheldon’s news conference is just poor and low brow. He just cannot think about complex issues.

Yawn

Yawn,
Alternative to your thoughts :

Joyce working for himself in the short-medium timeframe.:suspect:

Union members acting in the long term interests of the airline [keeping their jobs]:D

NOT grounding the airline would be better!:ugh:

Yeah-perfect timing, while CHOGM is on and just before Melbourne Cup.:rolleyes:

Joyce is PAID millions, he is not WORTH them.:mad:

I raise you 2 yawns. :zzz::zzz:

Tankengine, my thoughts:

Joyce working for himself in the short-medium time frame...He is correct, his best short-term outcome is to agree but this would be the wrong long-term option.

Union members acting in the long term interests of the airline [keeping their jobs]...Incorrect, there are many times during the life-cycle of a business where the strategic option is to reduce costs to survive. A company is a thing that should be greater than the assets, marketing, employees and management.

NOT grounding the airline would be better! Agree...but going broke would be much worst.

Yeah-perfect timing, while CHOGM is on and just before Melbourne Cup...All low yield events. Better to upset CHOGM than the high yield corporate clients who are your bread and butter.

Joyce is PAID millions, he is not WORTH them...I have never really liked him..until now. I think he has been masterful.



My final thought for you: I flew the last Ansett flight to return the displaced pilots and FAs back home (as F/O): BNE-SYD-CBR-MEL. All very emotional, lots of hugs and crying. I hope you never have to fly such a flight.

As an instructor in the mid 80's I took a group of student pilots to the QF Jet Base at Mascot, for a tour of said facility.

At the time QF (pre merger with Australian) boasted a world leading engine maintenance facility, and if memory serves, they also boasted the world record time on wing of 747 engines (Pratts back then I think).

QF can no longer make such claims, or sadly, boast much in the way of world leading. This fall has been overseen by management, who don't seem to me to have the best interests of the company at heart. It seems much more like they have the best short term interests of their own bonus and/or pay rise at heart, and the long term future of the organisation and the bulk of employees, gets nary a look in.

Further it seems that QF is being positioned by successive management groups to be plundered as Ansett was under TNT/News Corp.

Australia loses. :{

The two jetstar F/A's were great. Bravo to them for the strength to get up there.
Well done!

Jeez, their stories were a shocker weren't they (in terms of QF's total lack of assistance). Courageous indeed.