If the Qf pilots think that their PIA is seen as separate to the that of the ALAEA or the TWU they are living in a fools paradise.

The public don't care, all they see is disrupted travel plans and the unions flexing their muscles.

To the public AIPA = ALAEA = TWU = BLF = WHARFIES etc.

Initial support is waning, the public has a very short attention span.

Remember, 82% of international pax have already given up on you!

Differentiate from the other unions now or die!

Arnold,

If the unions agreed with a CoL increase, I think the Company would jump but there is a lot more involved than a simple pay rise to keep up with inflation. For example, unions are apparently seeking security of tenure. No one in 2011 in their right minds would agree with that concept. Same applies to improved travel conditions, subsidisation of union activities etc. Need I go on? Action hurts the Company, not just directly with delays etc but goodwill. If a traveller feels that the unions are going to bugger-up his or her travel, he or she will travel with another airline. It's that simple. That is the result of industrial action.

Ken:

1. The company has not even offered cost of living increases.

2. Nobody has asked for "security of tenure" they just want an end to the deliberate offshoring of jobs.


3.Your point about good will is correct. Qantas has ignored it for years. Ask anyone who paid for travel via Qantas and finds themselves on a Jetstar service.

I fully support the baggage handlers, engineers and the long haul pilots. Their claims are fair and reasonable, give them hell.

TBM if your holiday was ruined by PIA, which everyone that reads a newspaper or watches the evening news is aware of, could I suggest that you either took a risk in booking QF ( and lost the gamble ) or are stupid. I do not believe you are stupid, so accept it and move one.

Unseen, you are the president of a very small club. These union actions are nothing like the Wharfies strikes or the mining unions ( striking because of no pink ice cream ).

If QF management thinks 3% is CPI, I want some of what ever illicit drug they are taking.

Ken, as usual you post the same company tripe. Is your name Leigh Clifford by any chance?

Lets break down your verbal diareah.

Nope. They are seeking that jobs be kept Australian, not outsourced to cheap overseas labour, with no superannuation, no OHS, lesser laws with respect to training and standards. There is a significant difference to your pathetic attempt at spin.

Hang on fella. Why is this a problem? Managers were given significantly improved travel benefits in their remuneration packages. Why is it a problem for the staff? Two sets of rules mate? And before you start the "we can't compete with overseas carriers crap, you should remember that overseas carriers give their staff WAAAAAAYY better staf travel than this cheap and nasty mob.

Yeah, you probably do mate, and with the spin that you and your filthy mates go on with I'm sure you will. But I'm just as sure you will be wrong.

Yup, it does. But this bizarre mob are actually trying to bring it on, because it is covering up their woeful ineptitude. They can spin to blame the unions for the hurt to the company.

The simple fact of the matter is this. The unions can take the action that they are, and die. Or they can sit back and let the greedy filth (aka Qantas management) kill the airline anyway. Either way, the end is nigh. But at least if they fight, there might be some chance. I would rather take that chance.

And in any case Ken, I'm very surprised you keep popping up here. You really are a glutton for punishment, aren't you?

Re #20 Arnold E...seems reasonable to me.

I see on this mornings news the pollies are seeking a pay rise that would see their wages doubling...nice if you can get it...but it puts paid to all the CEOs and Government ministers out there who ask us all to show wage restraint in these difficult times (which seem to have been happening since I started work in 1979) and then turn around and receive a 50-100% pay increase...as for not expecting a guarantee for a committment from the company that your job is secure I think that is a reasonable ask from the staff of Qantas...after all unlike the pollies they don't recieve a lifetime pension in the form of a very lucrative superannuation scheme once we have dismissed them...you could argue these points all day however I will say again that I don't believe what the staff of Qantas are bargaining/stopping work for is unreasonable...Qantas has had plenty of notice.

What if one of these CEOs turned around and said something like "I value this brand, this company, these people and where it came from and from whose shoulders we now stand on...so I am going to do everything in my power to make it work...and if we all pull together we can make it work"...

That's whats missing today...no can do, no let's roll up our sleeves and make this work...

"Work is only opportunity dressed in overalls"

Nah sorry...I'm dreaming...however look at what Rob Fyfe has achieved during his tenure with Air New Zealand...it is possible.

Your comments sound reasonable to me Arnold E...the rubbish coming from Qantas management sounds like what it is...spin

I don't work for Qantas and I don't work in Australia

Ken, you've got me totally snookered there. Well done. Good darts.

When you post something so brief, but which is complete rubbish on so many different levels, I feel that it's impossible to post a response within the constraints of what I'd consider a "reasonable" length post on pprune.

You should probably start by actually determining exactly what it is they're seeking first, rather than just making it up as you go.

1. They're not supposed to suit the uniform. The idea is for them to stand out!

2. The Captain may well have been a management pilot (or other management stooge) if he wasn't wearing the tie. If it was his sector, it's also unlikely he would do the PA. It's not compulsory to either wear the tie, or do the PA, but it's strongly recommended if you want anyone to chat to over a beer or dinner.

3. The PAs have changed as of a couple of days ago. There are now 4 different PAs depending on the circumstances: domestic, delay, and international inbound/outbound.

4. It doesn't particularly matter when the pilot does the PA. He can do it at a time of his convenience or choosing so long as it doesn't interfere with safety. Just as with most other PAs. There are many personal opinions among pilots on which time is most appropriate, but I wouldn't be losing any sleep over "when" it was done.

Dutchy beat me to it but anyway.....

Thank you. Loyal Qantas staff do sincerely appreciate that. We cannot keep the airline going without the support of people like you.

Some crew are unable to participate in the PIA (and thus wearing of ties and being included in the PA) for various reasons not limited to non-membership of AIPA, managerial pilots, unable to vote in the PIA ballot due to any number of reasons or simply do not support the PIA.

Strangely, the ties get a generally positive response if any. I've told a few times by other staff and passengers that the whole 'normal' uniform is old fashioned and the tie is a breath of fresh air!

For that reason you may find on your next flight that it has changed content and intent.

There is no specific time to do it. It is just done at an 'appropriate time'.

C441,

You touch on a good point re the staff appreciating the support.

Why isn't this message coming out that the staff are questioning what is going on outside the industrial action and getting the point across that valued customers are leaving because of what management are/ are not doing?

Or is the culture of this company so toxic that this isn't allowed to happen or is ignored?

Ricin is less toxic than the management culture of this company at the moment.

At least the military have developed an antidote to it. There is no known antidote to being "Alan Joyced".

Except for a surgically secured cloaca!!!;)

I think that all former TAA (Australian Airlines), Ansett, East West Airlines and IPEC employees should be encouraged to give the same level of support to the QF group employees as they gave to us back in the year that can't be mentioned! :E

You can it is called 457 Visa,

fl610, It appears you don't know just how much support you did get!:ugh:

Tankengine - Sure do. It lasted a good three days!:ugh:

Dutch Roll "wear the tie if you want to have a beer or dinner with the others". OH boy, that reminds me of "that year". No matter which side of the argument you are, thats an immature attitude!

Well let's stop talking absolutes firstly, Higs.

I said "strongly recommended". The simple fact is that if you don't wear one as a long-haul pilot, you run the risk of being identified as someone who doesn't support the cause of fighting to retain our jobs in aircraft with red kangaroos and "QANTAS" painted on the side. While personally I don't tend to race to final judgement until I have listened to someone's point of view (eg, maybe it just got chewed by the dog), others certainly would.

Is it "immature" to not particularly be interested in socialising with someone who doesn't support your cause or who even might be actively involved in sabotaging it? I mean, really? I'd contend that such behaviour is entirely natural, understandable, and commonplace in all walks of life. Would you go and have a nice pleasant dinner with someone who you feel might be happy to stab you in the back?