Old Fella: need I list all incidents at Qantas in the last couple of years ? If that's not multiple shortcomings, I don't know what is. You know exactly what I mean.

You having a bit of a problem there, knee-deep?

...and SteaminDivet, none of what you suggest mate, just poor airmanship!

But it seems that there is a problem with airmanship only in Melbourne.

I rest my case Amos. You cite poor airmanship based on your opinion of a situation of which you have absolutely no fact on. Make that statement after reading an ATSB report, not a rumor forum. Your comments are nothing short of a cheap shot at some guys that were in a flight deck where an error was made. To assume the error was purely due to poor airmanship shows an attitude of shoot first and ask questions later.
What a great philosophy to operate on.
I'd prefer to find the facts and why it happened and then adjust to increase safety. But you know better with your 40 years sir.
Look left, I agree with your sentiments.

Human Error
 

Amos2, you have real no details on the incident, no knowledge of what actually transpired in the flight deck, no knowledge of the individudals involved and yet you are passing judgement on others. Like I said before, your arrogant, 'holier than thou' attitude stinks. I would hate to spend 8 or 10hours on a flight deck with someone like you.:yuk:

So, are all of you saying that you all bust altitudes from time to time?

And you're happy with that?

But if you don't bust altitudes, and others do, you're happy with that?

'cause there might have been a problem on the flight deck?

What sort of problem would that be? Non standard procedures perhaps?

Do you lot have any discipline whatsoever to SOP's ?

No, Thats not what I am saying. You obviously don't understand. But we all expected that. You have nothing worthwhile to add to this discussion that is proactive.

amos2, can I ask some advice?

While very new to jet aircraft I busted an altitude whilst leveling out at cruise altitude in a high speed climb. I had never encountered a climb with a level out into a 150kt jet stream and in my attempt to control the aircraft without throwing passengers around I went 250 foot above assigned cruising level. I have studied our SOP's and couldn't find a reference to leveling out into a jet stream in them. Nor could I find one in the aircraft manual. The endorsement didn't cover that scenario and it hadn't come up in conversation, so unfortunately I found out by making an error, which in turn has given me valuable knowledge.

In your almighty opinion should I have just handed in my notice, packed my bags and set up a fruit and veg stand, or should I continue to learn, including through both my and other peoples errors, making a concerted effort to avoid them and continue to learn every day of my career?

I like your style Buddy! I think you'll go far! ;)

...running a fruit and veggie stand that is!

What's the limit Buddy?

+ or - 100ft? Does that ring a bell to meet a first class IR standard?

Back to the sim for you to lift your standard Buddy!

What was the Captain doing?

Probably heads down checking the SIGWX!

Doh ;).

ps. I agree with Amos and Keg, aim high, stay disciplined and develop safe habits.

Or checking the WX in the newspaper.

The other question is why wasn't it discussed during line training? I certainly recall that being discussed when I was a S/O at QF before I even got into the front seat. It was re-iterated during F/O line training 'discussion items' and after having checked out, the first time I selected 320 knots climbing into a jet the Captain asked me how I was going to respond to the overshoot shear as it came in.

Maybe he was the captain? It's where our industry is headed..... :sad:

Could I suggest some of you with attitude tone it down a little.

It's not acceptable to bust altitudes but do you think the guys/gals who did, did it intentionally?? I doubt it - maybe risk mitigation strategies aren't being taught like they used to. Having said that, I know several 'old school' captains that make more mistakes than 'newbies'.
But if you haven't made a mistake or several in your 40 year career, then you're kidding yourselves.

No old bold pilots - I know that not to be the case!

That's a poor response spoiler!
Nobody deliberately kills themselves, they usually die because of incompetence!

anus 2, ooopps sorry there goes one of those silly human errors.

I can categorically state that I have NEVER busted an altitude.:ok:


Instead, I have found far more inventive ways in which to stuff up :sad:

Amos,

WHATEVS!

Just make sure you let everyone know next time you make a mistake!
I don't condone incompetence like busting altitudes, I just accept humans make errrors that's all. It's part of learning and forms experience.

You'd be probably wiser to agree with me.

There, is that a better response?