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-   -   Qantas paid Jetconnects' bills, hearing told (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/442509-qantas-paid-jetconnects-bills-hearing-told.html)

breakfastburrito 12th Feb 2011 00:27

Qantas paid Jetconnects' bills, hearing told
 

Qantas paid Jetconnects' bills, hearing told
Marcus Priest, Mark Skulley and Lisa Allen


A New Zealand subsidiary of Qantas Airways that employed pilots had no bank account of its own and relied on its parent to pay all its bills, according to evidence in an industrial dispute between Qantas and a pilots' union.

Jetconnect was established by Qantas in 2001 to operate domestic flights in New Zealand, but has since taken over most of the parent's trans-Tasman flights.

The Australian and International Pilots Association has a long running case before Fair Work Australia and is arguing that Jetconnect staff should be covered by the same award as Qantas short-haul pilots.

Evidence has emerged in hearings that Jetconnect lacked accounts. Qantas has claimed Jetconnect is a New Zealand operation with New Zealand employees and is not controlled by Qantas.

The Australian Council of Trade Unions has intervened arguing that Jetconnect is a “sham arrangement”, which disguised the fact that the true employer of the New Zealand pilots and crew is Sydney-based Qantas.

“This is an important case that would set a precedent against Australian companies seeking to avoid Australian awards and labour laws by setting up shell companies whether in Australia or offshore,” said ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence.

The outcome of the case is crucial for Qantas, which has been open about setting up offshore bases for pilot to help fight intense international competition and has been lobbying the federal government in recent weeks. Pilots based in Singapore, for example, are used by Jetstar, Qantas's fast-growing budget carrier.

It emerged at the Fair Work hearing last week that Jetconnect's chief executive, Paul Daff, had little control over his company's operations and Qantas moved money in and out of its accounts without consulting Jetconnect.

Asked about a one-off dividend of $67 million Jetconnect is reported to have paid Qantas in January, Mr Daff said no money was transferred and he did not have any role in determining the dividend.

“Ultimately the vast majority of it would have come from Qantas,” Mr Daff said. “It was a book entry.”

He also conceded that Qantas paid Jetconnect pilots their wages directly. Qantas owns all the Jetconnect aircraft, and the subsidiary's employees were trained in Melbourne by the parent company.

Flight planning was contracted to Qantas by Jetconnect. The parent paid all the bills for its subsidiary and set its budget.

“The physical cash is paid by Qantas and we process it into our accounts,” Mr Daff said.

Pressed for details of the company's bank account Mr Daff said he was unable to say how much money was in it. Nor was he able to name all of the companies three directors, who are Qantas executives, and he conceded he was unaware the company did not have its own website.

“But I am separate from Qantas” Mr Daff said.
“We're a wholly-owned subsidiary, but on a day-to-day basis we're managed and operated independently.”

Qantas regional general manager for New Zealand, Grant Lilly, conceded that Jetconnect did not have its own bank accounts and employee entitlements were accounted for as liabilities in Qantas's account.

Mr Lawrence said the evidence showed that Jetconnect was not a real airline. “It is a subsidiary wholly owned and controlled by Qantas – a shell company in other words,” Mr Lawrence said.

“By using this sham arrangement, Qantas is claiming to be entitled to pay wages that are less that the award, and almost 40 per cent lower than they would be obliged to pay under the Qantas [enterprise] agreement.

“This is despite the fact that the evidence shows that the pilots are trained by Qantas, wear Qantas uniforms, and fly Qantas planes on Qantas routes bearing the Qantas logo, Qantas even pays the pilots their wages direct into their bank.”

Yesterday, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said the pilots association had gone too far in its campaign.

“It's a normal course of industrial relations but that's becoming very personal, I think it's very aggressive and I think it's very over the top,” Mr Joyce said.

“I think it takes the industrial relation discussion to, unfortunately, a new low.”

A Qantas spokesman said the ACTU knew full well that “Jetconnect is a New Zealand-based airline, with New Zealand pilots flying aircraft on the trans-Tasman route under a collective agreement made with the NZ pilots unions”.

Workplace expert Andrew Stewart said the Fair Work Act applied to employees working in Australian, including if they worked for foreign corporations, and applied to Australian-based employees who worked overseas for an Australian employer.

Professor Stewart, of the University of Adelaide, said the law did not apply to foreign workers who were hired and based overseas, even if their employer was in Australia. It also did not apply to workers who came to Australian to perform their duties.

In some cases, foreign crew of ships in Australian waters are covered by the Fair Work Act, but only because of special regulations.

----------------------------Breakout box from article---------------------
Running on empty
Cross examination of Paul Daff, chief executive of Jetconnect, a Qantas subsidiary in New Zealand, on February 3
Pilots Association barrister ARTHUR MOSES, SC Paul Daff

How many bank accounts does it have? I believe it has one.
With which bank? I believe it is with the Bank of New Zealand.
When you say you believe, do you know for a fact? No, I don't
Are you a signatory to that account? No, I'm not.
Who is a signatory to that bank account? My finance manager.
Do you know how much money is held in that account? No, I don't.
Have you ever asked about how much money is in that bank account? No.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australian Financial Review, page 7, Friday 11 February 2011

ozbiggles 12th Feb 2011 00:41

Well that explains why a ZK registration aircraft can have "sprit of Australia" written on the side off it then.......
That alone shows how out of touch the Qantas board are. If you ever get a chance go to one of their Shareholder bluffs....I mean meetings, you should go. You thought our pollies could spin, wait to you witness Mr Clifford and Co in action.

schlong hauler 12th Feb 2011 00:53

An absolutely damning indictment of what goes on within QF management. Whether AIPA wins the case or not the evidence of the sham setup has been made public for all to see. This is indicative of the management culture that we are battling. I can't believe how stupid they are looking right now. God only knows how J* books are really cooked. Love the bit about 65 million going into the Jetconnect account then transferred back out to make it look like legitimate earnings. Where there is smoke there is fire and at the moment QCCs arse is on fire. Brilliant timing using the 60 minutes segment on Sunday evening, the Jetconnect sham court hearing and possible protected industrial action taking place all within a week. Plus the engineers win against the management thugs. Now I am engaged.

Stalins ugly Brother 12th Feb 2011 01:05

And another Question, is Alan Joyce and co. not only trying to circumvent Australian industrial laws but also Australian Tax laws with these Shame companies????

breakfastburrito 12th Feb 2011 01:16

If Qantas should win this case, its a green light to companies to use the same loophole, leading to tax leakage from both personal & company tax. How long will the Federal Government sit by and watch its revenue drain with the baby boomers starting to retire? Not long I suspect. Another headache for Gillard.

whatever6719 12th Feb 2011 02:38

Well I reckon if there is any justice left in the world, this sham/scam should be
finished off .. or am I being naive?
The question is, if the case goes against the company, will the flying come back to us over here at mainline, or will they just pay the kiwis more??

Worrals in the wilds 12th Feb 2011 02:47

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... it will be interesting to see what FWA's decision is. Either way, that's some nasty publicity to be getting in the AFR.


Well that explains why a ZK registration aircraft can have "spirit of Australia" written on the side of it then.......
Maybe "chequebook of Australia" would be more accurate :}

gobbledock 12th Feb 2011 02:49


If Qantas should win this case, its a green light to companies to use the same loophole, leading to tax leakage from both personal & company tax. How long will the Federal Government sit by and watch its revenue drain with the baby boomers starting to retire? Not long I suspect.
There is only one thing a government cares more about other than its own self interested egotistical pollies and the juicy fat wages, conditions and superannuation they draw and that is - income tax. The government is inept, incompetent and useless in all fields, departments and processes except its beloved untouchable self effacing ATO. If the ATO so much as smell a waft of revenue dripping elsewhere but in the Australian backyard they will be crawling all over The Rat quicker than The Leprepchaun crawling over broken glass and a fire ant nest to grab his next unwarranted and farcical bonus.

Devil Dog 12th Feb 2011 04:22

Thinking outside the square
 
Finally we are getting to the guts of the issue..the Oz public should be outraged and the ATO should be onthe case taxes not being paid to the country...total fraud...AIPA start thinking laterally!! get the ATO and the public to do your barking..woof woof!!

gobbledock 12th Feb 2011 05:30


Running on empty
Cross examination of Paul Daff, chief executive of Jetconnect, a Qantas subsidiary in New Zealand, on February 3

Pilots Association barrister ARTHUR MOSES, SC Paul Daff
How many bank accounts does it have? I believe it has one.
With which bank? I believe it is with the Bank of New Zealand.
When you say you believe, do you know for a fact? No, I don't
Are you a signatory to that account? No, I'm not.
Who is a signatory to that bank account? My finance manager.
Do you know how much money is held in that account? No, I don't.
Have you ever asked about how much money is in that bank account? No.
Wow, a Chief Executive that really is in tune with his company I see. Doesn't know about the most important of finances, how much is this goon being paid ? I think the finance accountant should be Chief Executive as it appears only he knows what is going on !
Funny how the accountable managers always pull a 'Sargent Shultz' and know nothing about their company when they are put in the spotlight. Sounds like a familar patern by now doesn't it, freight fixing, account shuffling and so the list goes on.

The The 12th Feb 2011 05:48

Imagine this:

Running on empty
Cross examination of A Pilot, Captain - Shonky Airlines, a Qantas subsidiary, on February 3
CASA barrister P NUTTS, SC N IDEA
How many fuel tanks does your aircraft have? I believe it has one.
With what do you fill this fuel tank? I believe it is AVGAS or some liquid that burns.
When you say you believe, do you know for a fact? No, I don't
Did you confirm the fuel quantity before depature? No, I did not.
Who confirmed the fuel quantity before departure? I do not know.
Did you know how much fuel was in the tanks? No, I did not.
Have you ever asked about how much fuel is in the tanks? No.


How long would Mr A PILOT last?

OhForSure 12th Feb 2011 06:26

This is a disgrace. Qantas management MUST presume we, the public, are all utterly ignorant and devoid of any individual brain power. There is one reason and one reason only for the offshoring and outsourcing of Aussie jobs: reduced labour costs.

QF is paying full cost for everything except labour! But don't let the public know... if it looks like a Qantas pilot, it MUST be a Qantas pilot. WAKE-UP AUSTRALIA! You're being fooled.

When Joyce claimed

“I think it takes the industrial relation discussion to, unfortunately, a new low”
he finally got something right. Shame he didn't intend it to sound that way. :E

cynphil 12th Feb 2011 06:55

Qantas..being a company traded on the Australian share market...there should be legal procedures going on due to the deceptions of where the dividends come from?? Where did the 67 million dollar dividend really come from?.As the CEO of Jetconnect says...it wasn't real...I am sure it was Qantas mainline!......just done that way to show the shareholders that Jetconnect is paying it's way!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like someone should go to jail over this!!!!! Where is the ASX while this is being reported?

-438 12th Feb 2011 07:12

This Qantas management believe they are far above the Australian public. As employees we all suspected they have dodgy accountancy practices. About time some media with balls investigated dealings in private equity takeovers, freight cartels & subsidiary LCCs profitability despite their legacy financiers supposed anchor on the ledger.

balance 12th Feb 2011 08:30

Jeeeeez.

If you take this to a logical conclusion, it doesn't bode well for Qantas. We may be fighting this battle as Qantas pilots, but if this is as shonky as it appears, then our jobs may be at greater risk than just being given to Jetconnect / Jetstar / Any Other Butthole who will do it for cheaper.

We may need to be careful what we wish for.

In any event, this is clearly shameful behaviour. Where is scrotum face now? His silence is deafening. Geoff? Geoff? Where are you son?

whatever6719 13th Feb 2011 01:07

Anyone hazard a guess as to what will happen to all that trans Tasman flying if QF lose the case before FWA?? Will it come back to mainline or will they pay Jetconnect Aussie wages?

roger_ramjet 13th Feb 2011 02:19

Fundamentally this is the same issue as Jet* and Qlink - they operate at a much lower cost base than mainline and so make more money and remain financially viable in the process.
If all Qantas subsidiary employees were paid at mainline rates then the whole group would be bankrupt within a year, and certainly could not compete with the domestic or international competition. The whole world is moving to LCC/value based airline business models, Qantas subsidiaries are currently propping up mainline and delaying the inevitable. Let's be honest, mainline pilots know this - that's why they're fighting so hard for job security clauses in their negotiations, as mainline will soon only exist where it is finacially viable to run a full service legacy airline, only on a handfull of trunk routes both domestically and internationally. Everything else will be done with a subsidiary company at a much lower cost base - Jetconnect doing trans-tasman, Jet* doing price sensitive leisure travel both domesticaly and internationally, and Qlink covering a lot of mainline 737 routes and regional connections in something like a C series jet.

Poto 13th Feb 2011 02:25


If all Qantas subsidiary employees were paid at mainline rates then the whole group would be bankrupt within a year, and certainly could not compete with the domestic or international competition
This is not the proposal being made by the LH pilot body.

QFinsider 13th Feb 2011 04:14

ASIC should be all over this, the mind boggles on how many breaches of the accounting standards/corporate governance this will throw up..

Naturally the little bog irishman will claim no knowledge!

balance 13th Feb 2011 05:18


Fundamentally this is the same issue as Jet* and Qlink - they operate at a much lower cost base than mainline and so make more money and remain financially viable in the process.
Fundamentally, the issue is that there are imposters from another country being paid half as much and purporting to be Qantas pilots. Qantas is perpetuating this notion, trading on such, apparently using shonky accounting procedures, and deceiving the Australian public.

That is the issue. Not the cost base.


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