Been a few weeks, any update on reconfig and/or IFE?

Just waiting for the wooden bench seats and some second hand overhead "hand holds" from the london tube system so they can install them in the ceiling.

Ahhh! Retro.;)

Its apparently a $450mil intl product revamp which will apparently see:

All B744s in a 3 class config (J,Y+,and Y) featuring the A380 style seats and IFE.

Apparently the Intl A333 and A332 fleet will also recieve the A380 Y class seats and the new A380 style IFE.

Full details to be announced in the next few weeks.

Anyone know more?

only 12 A380 a/c to have f/c, last 8 will not have first class seating.
first class will be only on lax and lhr runs.
B747 a/c not being retired will be reconfigured to j/c w/c y/c over the next few years.
looks like a lot of business first flight attendants will be working in economy.... shock-horror.
with only 60 qcca left on the 747 who will be moving to the A380 (december next delivery?) more crew will be needed in economy than business/first class on the 747s. possibly a retrenchment package coming up in 2011 for b/first cabin crew with the delivery of further 380s in the future?

Qantas to dump most first-class seats
 

From "The Age" online.

Qantas to dump most first-class seats | Airlines

Qantas is planning to dump two-thirds of its first-class airline seats as part of a radical $400 million overhaul of its long-haul fleet.

The changes, which could increase economy seating areas on planes by up to 20 per cent, comes after the world financial crisis sparked a dramatic slump in demand for expensive premium seating on long-distance flights.

Under the scheme that could be announced within weeks, Qantas would retain first class seats only on its London and Los Angeles flights, slashing the number of its first-class planes to 12 from 30, the Australian Financial Review said.

The paper, quoting a leaked reconfiguration plan, said the changes would mean that sumptuous first class bed-seats would be stripped out of all the airline's Boeing 747-400s, leaving 14 first class seats in just 12 Airbus A380 super jumbos.

Qantas confirmed it was in talks with suppliers and manufacturers about implementing changes to its fleet, but declined to offer further details or to confirm the Review story.

"We are considering a number of changes to our fleet including the 747-400 and we are still in early discussions with suppliers and manufacturers," a Qantas spokeswoman said.

"We have flagged previously that Qantas is considering a number of options for our fleet, but it's too premature to provide further details on changes that Qantas may make in the future," she said.

The airline's Chief Executive Alan Joyce said Qantas would continue to offer first class seats after it completes a new seat configuration, the details of which he said were expected to be announced in a few weeks.

"There is a role for first class but it's not as extensive it was in the past," Joyce told CNBC television.

The airline's international business is continuing to suffer, he conceded, adding however that demand for air travel in the domestic market was recovering.

Qantas said last month that its international patronage was down 22.6 per cent in the 12 months to November compared with a year earlier.

The sad news is
 

by the time the make up their minds and business has improved they once again will be short of aircraft and delay reconfiguration, again continuing with a mixed product.:{

Time was when there was truth to that. Reconfigs were incorporated in the major maintenance line and turnrounds were measured in months. (Was in that time that a respected beancounter observed that the financial case for a reconfig could never be validated because the next reconfig was started before the previous one could reach its breakeven point)

This time may be different, and I speculate with no inside knowledge, because the A380 deliveries, in part, permit 744 disposal, and the 787 deliveries permit 767 disposal. So if you defer one 744 disposal and one 767 disposal you can create a 744 reconfig line and an A330 reconfig line, both independent of major maintenance and with, maybe 3 week turnrounds.

Pure speculation, but I like it. Of course where you find the hangar space and manpower is probably an industrial stoush away:E

Probably wrong. my track record, like myself, is inferior.

Perhaps being mischievious ... but ...

747-8 ... 400 pax AND their bags in 3 class config (much more than 777) PLUS freight AND able to go more places than another quad .....

oh ..

sorry, the alarm just went off ...

sigh ...

nice dream though.


oh ...yes .... no money in freight ..... doh!

N

The only routes where legacy airlines like longhaul QF make money, are those where inbound freight and genuine First Class co-exist.

That is, historically, LHR, FRA, NRT, LAX, and possibly HKG to SYD and MEL.

All other combinations are less lucrative, including JNB and BUE.

There is no money in International freight outbound from Australia. That's why the wet leases allow a dead (no freight) leg out to Asia, to permit a profitable leg to USA or Europe for the aircraft operator.

I don't mean to rain on your parade noip but the A380 numbers speak for themselves.eg
SYD-SIN a380 450 pax with a fuel load of about 108-112 tonnes
SYD-SIN 744 330-400 pax 95-110 tonnes

SYD-LAX a380 450 pax about 190-200 fuel
SYD-LAX 744 307 pax(pacific config) 160-170 tonnes of fuel

Now I am no bean counter but with some simple arithmetic I reckon the fuel burn per pax is superior on the dugong.
Now there are a lot of 380 naysayers out there but at the end of the day the numbers are in its favour.

And before we start talking about on time departures etc, if you talk to those involved with the entry into service of the 744 they say it was a lot more trouble than the 380 is today. And looking at the 744 fleet today its OTP is pretty damn good for a relic of an aircraft.

Now, wasn't this thread about a reconfig or something.

BS,

I was talking about 747-8, but if you want to talk about the current 747 performance ...... A380 excels at pax numbers, however it does no better than the current 747ER at payload over long ranges (and even has problems taking all Pax baggage).

747ER LAX-MEL ... same payload as A380, 30t less fuel burn, but then I was talking about the 747-8 in 3 class ... different and better animal. From what I've been able to see, below 6,000 nm, A380 comes into its own, above that the current 747 has better payload economics.

Your statements about the 744 problems into service re the A380 are not correct. The 744 had problems for about 6 months after it was introduced. QF received their A380s at least a year after it was introduced and had significant problems. But then I'm being dragged into something I was not looking to.....

My original post was that with the 3 class config (now that QF wants to do away with much of First Class ) ..... 747-8 may well be worth looking at - 400 seats 3 class, better seat mile, cheaper overall sector cost ..... wider choice of airports, but then as I said .. not going to happen.

N

That was a lot of talk for something that's ... not going to happen!

The economics of the 747-8 are yet to be proven,so until such time as it has flown the drivel from Boeing is just that drivel.

Also I do believe bootstrap is correct about the 744 EIS. It had issues much longer than 6 months,which I think was due to the wiring termination in the MEC and quite a few software issues but then that is all history.

I will be happy to see the end of the first class pods on the 744,they are and have always been a pain in the bum. And that first class cabin is impossible to keep looking like a first class cabin. While they are there they should change the skybeds as well. they are a flimsy piece of kit that really arent comfortable.
But bring on the recaro economy chairs from the 380.they are a huge improvement.

on the 380 the IFE actually works and for 70 extra pax you get 7 extra cabin crew.
beats the hell out of the 744

744 Kangaroo config at the moment is 14/52/32/255
Total Pax 353, with 15 cabin crew.
A380 carries 450.

100 extra pax for which they get 7 extra cabin crew :rolleyes:

Who really cares, close the doors, don't let it hit your arse on the way out and bring us coffee :}

Who really cares, call us if you want something, whatever your name is? :ok:

Talking about the plastic fantasic A 380.does anyone know how many have been delivered and how many Airbus have to sell to break even let alone make a profit?
By the way this question has been asked a few times but ignored.Can anyone confirm or deny that Airbus has sent a team out to OZ to help fix the problems with the dugong?

It looks like they have a way to go before even making a profit then Trent.

My point was that the story I have heard is that a team was sent out late last year or early this year because of the on going problems with the dugong.They were not here when the dugong arrived and are only here because of the problems.

I don't recall Boeing people here when we got the 747's meeting each aircraft and seeing them off.Rockwell Collins yes but not Boeing.

TBar when the 744ERs were introduced they had fuel system problems and water system problems. If I remember correctly,everytime the first few landed in LAX Boeing were there to upload new software to get the fuel system runnung as designed.
As for the potable water system,well it has never really been fixed and is running on what seem an open dated Engineering Authority.

And yes Airbus has a working party to do mods and stuff like that aren't part of normal service and rectification work.
I guess it is just like taking your car to the dealer for warranty work except that the dealer has sent a few technicians to do the work on site.

I don't think they will be here forever,but they are learning from the defects that have come up on the QF 380s first hand. Which can't be a bad thing as at times explanations can be lost in translation.

According to comments from operators late last year the A380 was still ahead of the 747-400 in terms of dispatch reliability for similar service time.

Boeing also regularly sends teams of engineers overseas to assist customers in lifting their reliability. Lufthansa was a prominent case where Boeing sent engineers over to lift the dispatch reliability of their 747 by 2%. It makes sense for a manufacturer to back its product up with technical support and staff if available. I doubt Boeing would have just dumped their 747 on Qantas without backup, just because you didn't see the tech guys there doesn't mean a thing.

Today's article from ATW below by Geoffrey Thomas addresses the A380 v’s B747-400 ‘efficiency’ discussions and their respective dispatch reliability records in the first year of operation. Of course it represents the views of the A380 Director-Product Marketing . . . (my bolding).

Here we go

About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases

Only 9x B744s will remain in the fleet and they will be the ones getting the upgraded cabins.

Looks like they will not bother to reconfig all the other B744s which by the looks of it will all be gone in the next 2 years.

Or painted Orange!:E:sad::p:} tehehehe.....

No. Jetstar only get brand new aircraft. :rolleyes:

I'm no expert, but I'd say some will hang around a bit longer.

- so that's not much change out of 4 years to start with.

Also, the article states that 9 744s will be reconfigured, indicating that that 9 will be the ones staying in the fleet; however there will probably be some stragglers which won't get reconfig'ed, but will roll off beyond that time as their D's come up. So, any 744 getting a D between now & when this work starts (the better part of 2 years) will probably be allowed to soldier on (unless it's one of the 9 youngsters).

That said, it wouldn't surprise to see one-for-one replacement at some stage, but I'd suspect the current A380 delivery schedule is not sufficiently ambitious as to allow for 1:1 replacement of 16 airframes (27 currently in service less the 9 being kept) within 2 years.

More than 9 744s are staying. Some already have a 2 class config with no 1st. They might get upgraded to include premium cattle class.

How many B744 aircraft have first class now? I think they are saying 9 B744's will have first class removed. Not that 9 will be all that are left.

No jumbos will have 1st class. 1st class will only be on 12 dugongs. Which is a good thing because 1st class seats/suites are always a prick of a thing to work on.

SMH 19 Feb
 

Qantas to pack up to 100 more on its A380s MATT O'SULLIVAN
February 19, 2010
THE A380 superjumbo's reputation for luxury and extra room has given way to commercial reality at Qantas.

It will increase the number of seats on its flagship aircraft by as many as 100 because of a long-term trend of passengers preferring to fly closer to the back.

When the A380 was unveiled in France five years ago, airlines trumpeted that the super-jumbo would offer passengers bigger seats, inflight lounges, double beds and even showers.

But Qantas's decision to squeeze more passengers on its A380s confirms the long-held suspicions that the early euphoria about the flying cruise liners would eventually give way to the bottom-line.

Qantas will have eight of the A380s it has on order with European manufacturer Airbus fitted with 550 seats, instead of its previous plans for fewer than 500. It will also have 12 of the double-deckers - half of which are in service and the rest on the production line in France - retro-fitted to carry 40 more seats. The renovations will result in 50 to 100 more economy-class seats.

In the changes flagged late last year, Qantas will spend $400 million reconfiguring the A380s, as well as on replacing first-class seats on nine 747-400 aircraft with business-class ones. It will also install a new entertainment system on the jumbos. The 747 refits will increase the number of seats from 307 to 359.

The reconfigurations will begin at end of next year and take until late 2013, adding the equivalent of more than three 747-400s to Qantas's fleet.

''It is a very efficient way of getting additional capacity and helps the economics of our operations by between 10 and 15 per cent because there is no more crew required,'' said Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce.

He said most European airlines had 550 seats on their A380s.

Demand for first-class seats has been declining over the last 10 years, and was exacerbated by the global financial crisis. The changes will leave Qantas flying aircraft with first-class cabins on only the London and Los Angeles routes. Last year it dropped the first-class product from flights to Buenos Aires and San Francisco. The next services to go without will be to Hong Kong and Johannesburg flights.

However, Qantas's plans pale in comparison to the Reunion Island-based Air Austral, which flies between Sydney and Paris. It will become the world's first airline to have only economy class on its A380s after last year ordering two of the superjumbos that will seat about 840 passengers.

Yesterday nearly 200 passengers on a Shanghai-bound Qantas plane had to circle above the Tasman Sea for three hours and turn back to Sydney airport because of a landing-gear fault.

the number of seats will increase from 307 to 359 on a 744?
kangaroo config currently 14/56/32/256=358.
only 1 more seat?????
i am confused. anyone help out here?

inda ...

307 refers to the current Pacific config. So they will be increasing the Pacific config from 307 to 359.

Rgds.

It's a sensible business decision, why fly an empty first class seat around when you can have three economy ones in it's place. Even if only one is occupied the income will be better than nothing.

Leave the premium passengers to the airlines which have a premium product and concentrate on the mass market instead. Knackered B767s with surly old boilers in the cabin won't cut it against the likes of SQ and CX so why bother trying ?

QF have been in decline for years and now at last realise where they stand.

Thats not what the
 

gods in QF think. lets look at it. The prmium airline continues to be a mix of very un premium products.
A380 will get more Y/c seats
B747 will have evantually 9 reconfidured and many Not reconfigured J/C W/C and Y/C products
767's international/domestic continue to provide a 70's J/C /Y/C product
A330's will continue to have the less then flat bed, a lousy IFE system and no premium economy.
domestic A330's have different J/C seats,IFE ext
domestic 737-400/800 old and new version different J/c products,IFE etc

Nothing like consistancy :yuk:

cart_elevator

Perhaps they are sitting on their hands until the end of next year and see how the market is progressing. If things have picked up sufficiently they may put the project on the back burner and keep the first class seats, who knows.

Any truth to the news that an A330 mini cabin refresh which will begin shortly?

Intl A333/A332s will receive the new Panasonic IFE system and have the new (red) Y class seat covers (already on Intl A332s) plus the new A380 style carpet and curtains installed?

Hello to you chaps at QANTAS,:) could you put in row of deck chairs around row 50 for me and the wife. And dont forget the mini bar fridge underneath where the life vest usually goes.:ok:

It must be a bugger when an aircraft change is required with so many config versions of each plane. Oh ,and a comment about cathays service. Its not that crash hot down in pondlife on a 777 from hkg-mel. For a start you cant get both legs under the seat in front
with the IFE box occupying the space , and its like the mary celeste after the meal service is over l can tell you, and no point in fingering the stewardess call bell either. They are as surly as the rest only younger and a lot less fat!