Austrelian CC Ratio under threat
 

From Crikey.com


11 . Plan to cut cabin crew ratios sneaks under the radar

Ben Sandilands writes:

Under cover of media indifference, Australian airlines are trying to cut the ratio of flight attendants to passengers on domestic flights from one per 36 seats to 1:50.

There is more to this than efficient meal service. Cabin crew are there to get passengers out of a burning aircraft before they are killed by an otherwise survivable crash.

It is complex and difficult task. Think about it next time you are stuffed into a tiny seat some metres from the nearest exit. Add in thick smoke, screaming people, families trying to stick together or others paralysed with fear, all jamming an aisle that you usually take at least several minutes to traverse while boarding or disembarking.

Now think of the money the airlines can save by cutting back on the Australian standard ratio of 1:36, which is world’s best practice, to the 1:50 ratio found elsewhere. Now think again of that smoke-filled cabin.

This standard is being considered by a CASA working party which is reviewing an airline sponsored proposal to fall into line with the rest of the world.

The working party, which includes the Flight Attendants Association of Australia (FAAA) is due the provide CASA with a set of draft rule changes this month. A discussion period of some months would then follow before the proposed rule changes are approved.

There are of course other issues at play. All of the Australian carriers already use exemptions granted by CASA on a regularly renewable basis to crew the cabins of Boeing 737-800s and A320s with only four attendants rather than the five that would apply under the 1:36 ratio as they fit them with between 168-180 seats.

Qantas, Virgin Blue, Jetstar and Tiger use this variation of the rule.

But those exemptions crucially leave one cabin crew on station at each of the four major doors, two at either end of the fuselage, which have integrated emergency slide and raft assemblies.

The 1:50 rule saw the US Airways A320 that ditched into the Hudson River beside Manhattan in January crewed with only one attendant at the two rear doors, where he had to fight off passengers who were trying to open them even though the lower sill was below water.

Had either of those doors been fully popped the jet would have sunk more rapidly than it did, and well before the passengers had escaped to the wings from where most were transferred to rescue boats.

This is a story where the defence will be "safety isn’t compromised". And that will be a lie. This is all about cost cutting, not life saving.

This is just another way to cut costs at the expense of safety. How low will we go before people wake up and see their safety is being compromised all to keep ticket prices down. Prices are at there lowest level in 17 years and in the meantime we are getting closer and closer to the bottom in terms of safety. We have worlds best practice here in Australia so let's keep it that way. Let's be pro active now instead of re active later. Why do people have to wait for deaths to spur them into action. Prevention is better than a cure.

This is not so much about ticket prices....

Boards do not care what the pax pays for their seat instead they care about yields....and market share

If they lower the number of crew or reduce costs in any way they get a bonus...it's as simple as that.

Money is and always has been the motivator here....pure and simple.

Passengers wont care less how many cabin crew are on board, so long as they can still get their Gold Coast flight for $29.

Re the above article of the A320 Hudson ditch with one flight attendant at the rear 2 doors....well guess what....Jetstar already operates the A321 with only the CSM at the front two doors!! The race to the bottom has not only begun, it's halfway over as far as I'm concerned. Now guess who has to operate L1 and R1 if the CSM is unable?? Passengers in row 1 of course.....after a 30sec brief!!!:ugh: Yeah, good luck with that one, just hope none of your loved ones are on board if that happens.

What is the norm for airlines with A319s or A320s, for example? With my airline they assign 5 crew (LR1, LR2, R2A) but when I flew last week with bmi they seemed to only have 3 crew? The senior F/A was all by herself at the fwd of a 319!

at eJ it's 4 on the 319 with 156 seats, same on 320. On the 737 it's only 3 because it's 149 seats (SCCM up the front on her lonesome).

Interesting. In the accounts of the Hudson ditching, as far as i know all the cabin crew were female.

As for being by herself down there... well not too sure on the A320, but on tail-heavy aircraft like the 737-800, one crew member does stay down the back (to ensure doors are not opened) but that doesn't mean there is only ever one down there. The other crewmember goes to the cabin to oversee evacuation at the overwing exits. (I know this may not be the policy at all airlines but I'd guess it would be similar at most)

Sandilands needs to do more research, Qantas don't fly the 737-800 with 4 crew on a regular basis, that's only for crew sickness in a port without flight attendants. They fly the -400 with 4, but the 800 always has 5 in normal operations. So that's 2 facts wrong in the article. Better luck next time Ben.

Also, at Qantas, it is a Short Haul EBA requirement that the 737-800 have a crew compliment of 5 and the 737-400 have a compliment of 4.

Facts please - 1:36 died years ago
 

MODS:
Can we please correct the spelling in the thread title - I know my spelling is rather tabloid but it does look a little dodgy to the rest of the world.
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The 1:36 ratio was given away from as early at 2006 and today almost every carrier has an exemption for reduced crew - some which expired on 30 June were quickly rushed through in an effort to avoid being caught by the proposed reforms.

The Unions or anyone else for that matter did not 'really' oppose* the reductions - not even on the jungle jets with one person being responsible for 2 doors ..(WTF!!!! and with the skewiffslide at R2 how the hell did anyone prove the evac efficiency!!!!)... Apart from a few whining lines recently in the SMH and a puff piece in crikey, the CC world has generally been out to lunch. However precedent now exists and you can't retro legislate.

From what I'm told the proposed changes require the airlines to lodge safety cases covering all of the duties CC carry out inc day of Ops/disruption stuff, fire, medical, security and a compliance statement in terms of fatigue. (better than the considerations given to pilots in the front seats).

This has to be better - at the moment all the airline has to do is quote the results of a highly stage managed evac test done by the airframe manufactuer - the so called 50%-90 second test. These tests are a joke as they are always done with a fresh 'top gun' crew that are well rehearsed and pretend pax that attend with the knowledge that they are going to be in an evac test.

What's more current exemptions are covert. No consultation, no scrutiny and the matter is handled behind cozy doors with CASA away from prying eyes or those with a bit of knowledge. Plus things like duty limits etc are EBA line items that are progressively being eroded.

In the new system I believe the 'safety case' becomes a public document (under FOI) and therefore if there is an incident the safety case document becomes a powerful stick to be used by the regulator and the civil courts. It also will apply to Overseas operators wanting to fly in Australian markets and those doing the wet lease shonkies.

The current exemptions are a joke. DJ's "automatic" renewals in June prove this as the reduction to 4 CC on the 737 is based on the o'wing exits being self help - ie., operated by briefed pax...YET in issueing the renewals CASA didn't even read the DJ CC manuals which still has L2 opening the door and then fighting their way AGAINST pax flow to the overwing - which is contrary to the Boeing directive and the evac data used to approve DJ's exemptions. ...all of this and not a single objection from CC or their union!!

Jetstar is just as bad and they in good company with QF who pioneered and perfected the use of changing the regulatory regime to bargain down costs in order to jack up Exec bonuses. Other airlines learned quickly and generally the regulator has been a paper tiger while successive Minister(s) have been too busy adding up their frequent flyer points to notice.

The time for action passed years ago and CC and their unions were asleep, out shopping or just ineffectual in opposing the exemptions - I suggest rather then wasting energy on stories that go nowhere that all crew focus on the flaws in the current expemtions and opose each and every safety case that affects them.

I say join the pilots and fight for decent fatigue and duty limits and rather than wasting time with reserve grade journalism start challening CASA and the Minister to g'tee that they will enforce the airline's individual safety cases and initiate "show cause" proceedings against the airline's AOC's if they say one thing in the safety case and then disregard it and do another.

The current Minister has flick passed almost everything in the aviation portfolio to bureaucrats. These people in CASA, Dept of Tpt etc all parrot the Howard and the Rudd Govt's blind mantras of "Open Skies" and are on a mission to let anyone that can wet lease an aircraft operate in and out of Australia (some dodgy EU airlines are next on the list). Only a small percentage of these bureaucrats have any operational aviation experience.

If these new proposals to CC ratios do make Australian and OS/bilateral operators comply then that has to be a good thing. This issue is not just about CC - pilots are very supportive, especially in lobbying for FRMS and duty limits.

The sad thing is that I'll bet 99% of pilots and CC will agree that something has to be done - but very few will even bother to write to the Minister or their Local Member seeking an answer.

*re 'oppose' - points awarded to a very small number who did try but were skittled by crew complacency, B.S. buzzwords like "world's best practice" and a regulator that was too afraid to upset airlines.

AT

I just want to point out (I dont know if it already has been, as I havent read every post) But the ratio that they are proposing, is already in use here in NZ as well. And it is working fine.
With the size aircraft being operated across the Tasman, along with the passenger loads (On the current 737-300's) the loads are only around 120-135. This is still well below the needs of 1:50.
The -800's loads will only increase it by another 20-30 pax max.

Personally Im seeing it as a wasted attendant... you dont need 2 up front for business class on a 737.

lilflyboy262...

so the whole point of the extra crew member is for service only?

Come on...

Open question to anyone seriously qualified to respond...

On a FULL 737-800 (up to 189 pax - which DJ can do), as a crew member at the back of the aircraft, do you GENUINELY believe you can make it to the overwing in a burning aircraft, in UNDER 30 seconds (assuming it will take you AT LEAST a minute to evacuate from there).

It's absurd that so many people seem to have convinced themselves that their EP training was based on fictional events...

Last week's crash in PNG, I lost a childhood friend. It now makes a total of 10 PERSONAL friends of mine who have perished in 5 separate air accidents in our region in just 5 years.

I have ABSOLUTELY NO faith in the regulator to make the tough or unpopular decision, nor any airlines ability to place safety before the already thick lining of their own pockets.

Boomerang Butt,What has the sex of the F/A got to do with anything?
After watching the doco on the Hudson ditching it looked like the L1 door was opened in manual.It looked like when the door was first opened no slide deployed then later the slide raft mysterously appears.
Was this because the door was opened in manual then closed again and reopened in automatic.
I don't know if this rumour about one F/A at either end of the aircraft is true but if it is then it's nothing more than madness.How can 1 person look after 2 doors in an emergency?
Wasn't this the problem with the 737 in manchester and a passenger opened a door into the fire?
If the airline execs want to save money then they should give up something themselves that doesn't affect safety.If they don't care about service then fine but no one should be able to lower safety standards.

T-Bar, the point about the FAs being female was that Sandilands refers to the FA at the rear as being male. Just showing how a couple of 'facts' in his story were incorrect- he needs to do more research.

Not sure what airline you're talking about Lilflyboy, but the 2nd crew member in J class on QF is only up there for the take-off/landing portion of the flight (i.e. to man their door) During service they generally assist in economy pretty much right away.

Interesting that DJ require crew to make their way to the o/wing. At QF they are considered 'self-help'- the times we are trained to go to them include in a ditching (to launch rafts on the -800) or to assess outside conditions during an alert phase (when all pax should be still sitting, commands given as such)

Ideally, a crewmember would be able to make it to the o/wing, but realistically, this probably would not be the case (either due to pax flow or incapacitation), so the briefing is meant to cover this at least so the pax operate the exits correctly. Not too sure on the statistic now, but I do recall reading in the past that the overwings are still the most incorrectly opened exits in emergencies.

Personally, I would not like to see the ratio go down further, purely because for most onboard emergencies (fire, dg etc) the drill requires 3 crew to participate. I'd like at least 2 more there to control the cabin & maintain flight deck surveillance at this time.

The drill does not require 3 to participate.
God knows how the solitary crew member on the dash-8 get's another 2 crew just so that it is possible to perform the fire drill. :ugh:

Twiggs, I am talking about the 737 here. Please re-read.

A Dash 8-100 is a LOT different in size to a B738...! :ugh:

Well,twiggs let me see if I understand you...

Because Dash-8's have 1 or 2 cabin crew then thats justification to lower the number of cabin crew to 1:50 on larger aircraft simply because they don't have the luxury of other cabin crew to assist????

Never mind the fact that the Dash-8 is a small aircraft even compared to a 737 ...

Perhaps Twuggs thinks that QF domestic only operate Dash-8's

Let's set the record straight Twiggs....Do you support the reduction from 1:36 to 1:50?

Yes or NO.....

Yes Boomarang butt, but a fire on a 747 is no different to a fire on a dash 8.
My point is, the 3 crew for a drill is not an argument that is going to influence the decision to keep a 36:1 ratio because it is not a requirement as you put it, and you really only need 1 person to fight a fire.

actually its a 3 person operation

1st person fights the fire
2nd person is the communicator
3rd person is the back up

Once you have put on a PBE smokehood you cant use the interphone and once you have fired off a BCF you need a smoke hood.

Twiggs with the greatest of respect i realise you are not a crew members but that is the Qantas Basic fire fighting drill for long haul crew

Posted by Twiggs..I must remember to tell that down at the local firestation next time I see them....So all those other firemen are really not needed Twiggs?

It does not matter how many crew you have, you use all available resources...that means having other crew as a backup/support and another as a communicator....hence the point about 3 crew working together.

Of course in a small aircraft such as the Dash-8 that is going to be a lot easier simply because if the size....but if you have the resources then you will use them won't you...

Twiggs..I will repeat my question...

Do you support the reduction of the crew/pax ratio from 1:36 to 1:50

Pegasus,
I am well aware of the 3 roles in the procedure to fight a fire, but as I said, it is not a requirement.
The main one is the firefighter.
Yes it's nice to have the other two, but in the real world nice doesn't always happen.