No point in trying to get an over 65's reaction on this forum - and please don't insult us by defending any Freedom employees - they got what they signed up for - sorry the pilots ended up getting far more than they deserved!!

There's no one over 70 on the 744, that's incorrect.
The oldest is 69.
Everyone got what they wanted.
Air NZ, the Govt, the public, CAA, ALPA, no one wanted a fixed retirement age so there's no reason to complain.

old c&*#'s
 

They have as much right to be there as i have to hate them for it.

Seems like something really wrong with our "colleuges" when they won't take a holiday in order to keep young fellas with families in a job!

Just thinking of yourself BBMouse. How do you know what leave any of the older guys have booked? Or anyone else for that matter. At this stage no one has been made redundant and every avenue is being looked at to avoid that at all costs.

Hate is a very strong word. Looking at your age I think that 55 retiring was long gone before you had your first job so you knew when you started.

While I don't want to go past 60 I feel it will be my duty to so as the likes of you are p****d off.

Billy T, I see your point................. But.

The old coots are the only ones with retirement leave. They sold it long ago. And they have bucket loads of it!

The over 65's in general are incompetent. Yeah, they can pass sims after 6 days off at 2 in the afternoon with very little pressure extendend on them by their sim instructor buddies. But get them to make an extension on the final fix while being radar vectored into London or HK after a long nights flying, na. They are slowing down like the rest of will when we get to that age. I wont say it wont happen to me, because it will.

Most of them are pleasant enough people. Not too many aholes left. But just old coots who rely on the rest of the crew to get the job done.

So your next question will be, why do they continue to pass route checks and sim checks.

Answer is I dont know. A systemic failure in the system? Or are they just lazy when it comes to line flying? Perhaps both.

And billy t, BB Mouse was not thinking of himself. In fact i think he is actually thinking of those at the bottom of seniority who hopefully wont be affected.

Your welcome to stay past 60. hell your welcome to stay past 65. its your call. But don't bring that attitude to the flight deck. You wont be welcome at the pub.

11 guys over 65 (one turns 70 this year), another 6 will turn 65 in the next year.
40 people over 60 but under 65.

Will be pretty sad to see a young guy with a family out on the street (fingers crossed it dosent happen) while some of these chaps who have had their day continue to ride the train. :=

Real nice attitude there billyT, I suspect your attitude might be somewhat different if your name was the last on the GOP list.

Come on guys. Where in my post did have an "attitude". I merely commented on a posting that stated that "the older guys were not taking leave and that was going to send people down the road." Read it again. No one wants to see any redundancies. If we get to that stage then I hope that those guys will do the decent thing and consider retiring. It is not their fault there is a surplus of pilots. Four new pilots were employed less than 12 months ago. Incentive hours have been driven down by the company over the last year or two which has removed a buffer to prevent redundancies. This recession is unfortunate but not the only reason we are in this situation. The company are doing their best to keep everyone on so have to be commended for that. Let's just hope things don't get any worse.

And the over 65's retire so we don't have to carry them anymore...

Interesting... soundz like Blood in the water at Uncle Koru, I know they have trimmed fat from managment parked couple 74's and a few other areas but Pilots under the knife really?

Can someone tell us what the Air NZ contract states when it comes to redunancies?

Do they have to ask for volunteers or just discuss the option?

Is the payout a flat 52 weeks or based on time in the company?

Please advise.

To put the lot here would take up to much room.

Basically:

Use all leave.
Reduce all pilots to the Incentive pay threshold, across all fleets.
Downtraining.
Volunteers and LWOP.
Redundancies in reverse seniority.

Redundancy paypayouts are pro-rata depending on lenght of service.

I think at the moment that redundancies would be unlikely, however it wouldn't take much more of a fall of demand and it may be possible.

Just my opinion.

Which of the following do you think is true? Why do the old pilots keep on flying? Is it because they:

a) have no life outside of flying
b) are tighter than a tight thing
c) can't bear to dip into the super and want to keep earning the big bucks
d) are on wife number three and have lost it all already...twice
e) all of the above

Do you really expect them to move on over into retirement just to save the jobs of young guns at the bottom of the list? Come on. When we're in their position, we'll be exactly the same. We'll be thinking about our own interests and retire when and where it suits us. When you're at the top of the list, you're making the biggest bucks. That's why they hang around, plain and simple.

I don't believe there are any old pilots in history who retired principally because they felt the need to move over and let someone else have a go. Sad, but true. The world is all about looking after number one. The old pilots do it, and so will we. Admit it.

That said, who am I kidding? I want them to go too so we can all move up the list and make more money.

none of the above

F- Are on wife number one

:E

Some will have taken a severe financial battering and will be licking their wounds, something not unique to pilots, it's everywhere, and in such a poor investment climate it's unlikely many will want to pull the pin, particularly if they're in debt.

Their super will also have been affected quite dramatically, so will hang on hoping for an improvement in the payout.

Would these be the same people who have enjoyed the retirement age being raised from 55 to 60 then 65 - some of them have had a 'bonus' 10 years at the top!

Quite possibly, doesn't make any difference, I said that financial difficulties were common in society at the moment and for some it's financial ruin.
Greed flourished over the last few years and many borrowed and lived beyond their means, they still have to pay it back.
I'm not just referring to aircrew, it's a worldwide phenomenon, millions of people around the world are in negative equity for example, the mortgage exceeding the value of the property, making it impossible to sell unless you can afford the loss.
Few super schemes are ahead in the last financial year and who knows how those that joined Kiwisaver have fared-depends on which scheme they chose to deposit their funds.

Those with more money like those who remained after 65 may have more to lose. Who knows, they're not going to tell you.

I was reading in the Wall Street Journal yesterday that the richest americans are down an average of 30%.

Which just goes to show the old coots should have retired a year ago and they would have been soooo much better off!!
As one of them told me once, if you are walking down the street and the guy in front of you keeps dropping $100 notes on the ground, why would you stop picking them up?
I certainly agree that they should be taking their leave though. Lord knows they get enough of it.

Sexy time wrote: "and please don't insult us by defending any Freedom employees - they got what they signed up for - sorry the pilots ended up getting far more than they deserved!!"

You sir, are a cock. If you sign a contract does that mean you have to give up all rights to negotiate a new one when it expires? Those FAs could be doing their Air NZ shorthaul colleagues a big favour....especially if the fleet review ends up going Airbus for the domestic operation. Who would be surplus to requirements then?

And the Freedom pilots got exactly what they negotiated, with ALPA's assistance. Was it deserved? Depends how you define it, but I bet they could hardly believe their luck. Good for them. You sound jealous. Perhaps you should have joined Freedom and then you would have the same deal.
Life is about choices....sometimes they work out well, other times they dont. If your's didn't, don't begrudge others just because their's did!!

distracted cockroach - great post! It seems you have realised the implications of the zeal debate - unlike so many other nz employees who simply choose to believe the company propoganda.