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A380 to Fat for LAX.
THE giant Qantas Airbus A380 is too big for Los Angeles international airport. As Qantas plunges billions on the aircraft, LA air traffic controllers warned that, without changes, they may have no choice but to turn away the world's biggest passenger planes. America's National Air Traffic Controllers Association believes Los Angeles airport would be unable to accommodate the A380 if not for the recession-related slump in air traffic. "It is pretty inconvenient moving that Airbus around the airport," the association's LA tower president Mike Foote said yesterday. "There are restrictions that apply to that aircraft that don't apply to others." Its enormous wingspan was too broad for the existing runway and each time an A380 landed, all ground traffic on the tarmac had to be brought to a standstill, he said. "They are 50ft (16m) wider than any other aircraft we have so it causes all sorts of problems," Mr Foote said. The aircraft, which has been flying to LA from Melbourne and Sydney since October, carries between 450 and 853 passengers over two levels and has room for 50 per cent more cargo than most other planes. Its wings measure about 80m from tip to tip, the tail is 24m tall and its maximum take-off weight is 544 tonnes. That compares with a Boeing 747, the tail of which measures 20m and wingspan 64m. Australia's national carrier has invested heavily in the A380, with plans to have seven in the air by the end of this year and a fleet of 20 in operation by 2013. Now Qantas has three in the air - two flying to Los Angeles from Melbourne and Sydney and a third A380 covering the London route. They cost about $350 million each. The A380 Qantas route had "worked well to date" but the airline was hustling to improve infrastructure at LA, a Qantas spokesman said. "The city has always been fully aware of our requirements and of the economic benefits our A380 operations bring," said the spokesman. "Airports need to be able to handle these larger aircraft and we are working with the airport to develop longer-term infrastructure improvement options." Qantas is the only airline running A380s at LAX, Mr Foote said. It runs six flights from Melbourne and Sydney a week, three from each city. Mr Foote said, even if there were four or five A380 flights into the airport each day, the operation would crumble and flights across the airport would face chronic delays. "Because of the recession, the traffic has gone down somewhat but at pre-recession traffic levels it would be almost impossible to move around the airport," he said. The association is pressing for a new, bigger runway on the other side of the airport. Average daily landings and departures at LA airport have dropped 1000 to 1500 since 2000 amid fuel price rises, terrorism fears and the economic downturn. |
Since that article was penned, the northern complex runways have become available for A380 operations, which significantly reduce the disruptions to ground ops. The article is also a little over the top by saying that it brings all ground traffic to a stop, when in fact it just restricts the use of the adjacent parralell runway or taxiway. A 'rolling blockade' follows the aircraft around the tarmac. It is an additional restriction to ground ops, but not that bad.
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None of this should be a surprise to either QF or the Port Authority.
The latter wouldn't invest the money like many other airports had to. But QF knew it. Considering how long the delivery was delayed, all this was pretty obviously going to happen. It is not just LAX controllers that don't like this aircraft. The impact on OPS is not insignificant at SY either - esp with no brake cooling fans fitted to some of the aircraft - > long rollout + wake turn + pending departures. Having said all that, I am sure this kind of thing happened when the 747 1st appeared on the scene. This thing is flying in to LHR which has a restrictive taxiiway structure as well - I wonder how they handle it? Probably with their normal calm. |
I bet if it was a Boeing A380 and not an Airbus A380, there wouldn't be any problems. :mad:
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LAX ATC association spokesperson said....
It is pretty inconvenient moving that Airbus around the airport, There are restrictions that apply to that aircraft that don't apply to others. all ground traffic on the tarmac had to be brought to a standstill, he said. in fact it just restricts the use of the adjacent parralell runway or taxiway. A 'rolling blockade' follows the aircraft around the tarmac. It is an additional restriction to ground ops, The association is pressing for a new, bigger runway on the other side of the airport. |
Must be fun with all that uncontrolled vehicle traffic buzzing every which way on those roads adjacent to the runways.
They were always a worry for me whilst taxiing around LAX! Cheers...FD...:eek: |
Cheers LL, I can assure you I'm relaxed :cool: (Althought quoting only part of a sentence makes it a misquote).
I do wonder which 'other side of the airport' they wish to build a larger runway, when there is 2 runways on each side of the airport already. :confused: To (mis)quote -LL this is all ..spin..and games |
I bet if it was a Boeing A380 and not an Airbus A380, there wouldn't be any problems. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif |
From my humble observations LAX has trouble handling 747's let alone A380's. :=:=
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Back Seat Driver...
That's what I meant when I said.... "basically" when quoting you... But back to the ATC association in LAX... The line about a new runway could be an industrial ruse of angling for more money for dealing with new larger aircraft....everyone else tries to get more whenever something new arrives at work and I don't think they are any different.... |
I bet if it was a Boeing A380 and not an Airbus A380, there wouldn't be any problems. Remember what the yanks did to Concord when the Boeing SST got canned in the 70's.. |
Shouldn't it be too fat?
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low lobe
As usual this is all about politics...and spin..and games so people get what they want. But back to the ATC association in LAX... The line about a new runway could be an industrial ruse of angling for more money for dealing with new larger aircraft....everyone else tries to get more whenever something new arrives at work and I don't think they are any different.... try researching some facts |
Man Ground....
From your response I take it you're with ATC?
What facts are you talking about....that groups do not try and make the most of anything new? You probably didn't notice that the operative word in my post is 'COULD'....but that would be bollocks then .... |
Man Ground.
Don't bother responding to lowerlobe. He's a retired flight attendant who seems to be a world expert on anything and everything. He probably test flew the A380, personally designed the fly by wire system and hand built all the galleys. :rolleyes: |
Shouldn't it be too fat? |
Fun Bags
That's a bit harsh FB :p,It's good to see you back and I am surprised to see you on a thread that is not about Cabin Crew for once....
I suggest you have a weak black Tea with lemon and ring downstairs and see if anything from first class is left over... It's good to see you're broadening your horizons.... |
He probably test flew the A380, personally designed the fly by wire system and hand built all the galleys. Reminds me of many in our industry! |
I suggest you have a weak black Tea with lemon and ring downstairs and see if anything from first class is left over... |
ring downstairs and see if anything from first class is left over that's a blast from the past and made me laugh What a riot and don't even talk about the caviar.What was the name of that capt who picked up a first class menu when he boarded the aircraft before he did anything else.pricless. Hey funbags lobey might have done the first 2 but the galleys were mass produced not hand made.They were made in a factory out the back of Lakemba and were sold to the railways for the XPT too:D:D:D:):E I've got a mate who works in there and if Mrs Funbags wants a stainless steel kitchen or you want a nice work bench for the SS Funbags fishing boat let me know.mates rates honest. |
A380-800 driver,
sorry mate we were having some fun but I've got a couple of questions for you. Whats a "warries" and how are they malicious and I'm glad you don't have any landing probs with the dugong. What do you think about the stories about fuel leaks on ours? |
Maybe now is as good a time as any to re-introduce Aussie flighties to the pprune Cabin Crew forum. The perfect place for hosties to slag off pilots and each other or even just get into a high-brow discussion of the "thickest" passenger comment or most famous celebrity ever carried.
Reading the fantasies of what certain miserable or embittered hosties wish they'd said or done to pilots gets can be amusing sometimes but does tend to get pretty boring after a while. Mods... if it's true the Aussie peanut-pushers were thrown out of the CC forum for being intolerable, even by their own kind, why should WE have to put up with them? Thanks in advance! |
Yet another degenerated thread that highlights why professional pilots have pretty much abandoned D & G Reporting Points.....
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Eclan & Ron & Edna Johns....
To be fair this all started when Fun Bags ( a supposed professional pilot ) made this unprovoked statement about myself... Don't bother responding to lowerlobe. He's a retired flight attendant who seems to be a world expert on anything and everything. I agree with you about the peanut pushers (as you put it Eclan) that do the same as Fun Bags and instead of contributing to a debate only wish to incite trouble.....but then again I have my doubts that some Peanut Pushers are Cabin Crew at all and actually have an agenda to cause trouble..... If you want to post a comment in a Cabin Crew thread then by all means do so but make it constructive not argumentative and inflammatory as the Peanut Pushers and Fun Bags do.... Remember that the D & G areas are as the owners put it... Dunnunda & Godzone An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene. |
Dunnunda & Godzone An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene. Note that it say's ALL aspects of aviation.....not just flight deck crew... |
The Green Goblin....Within that network there are various areas including...D&G
So apparently, the 'ALL ASPECTS OF AVIATION' has escaped your attention !!!! Or do you think pilots are the only ones involved in aviation....there are no cabin crew,no engineers,no groundstaff,no admin,no ATC,no refuellers....the list goes on. I think it's best to get back onto the topic of this thread though.... |
lower
Go start up your own website. Call it PFARUNE. It is, as the name suggests, a pilot network. Retire gracefully. Golf, boating, lawn bowls perhaps! |
funbags,
It's time you let go of your blinkered anti cabin crew attitude.Lobey has just as much right to post here as you do or any of us.This is not just a parochial club for a few small minded egotistical pilots.You spend much of your time in cabin crew threads so you have to expect others to read and participate in other threads as well. Lobey is right,what part of all aspects of aviation don't you get.There is a lot more to the world and of aviation than the flight deck. Back to the thread and does anyone here know if it is possible to build another runway at Los Angeles so it can handle the new larger aircraft and do other airports in Europe have any problems with the A-380? |
JJ.
In the very early days of the B707 operations, they towed the aircraft out to the runway threshold before take-off because they feared the jet engines would hurl molten bitumen across the tarmac. With experience, those fears faded, just as they will with the A380. The runways in LA are already big enough. It's just that they are narrow spaced paralell runways. Everything in LA is tight. Building another runway, if it is possible, which I doubt, would just make it tighter. |
jj
When I post on CC forums, I don't profess to tell them how to run their meal service or deal with irate passengers. They are the experts there. lower seems to want to tell pilots everything about piloting stuff. He seems to be the font of knowledge on everything aviation. Just wondering why he worked in the cabin then, and wasn't a rocket scientist or something! :E Maybe he should stick to the weak black tea and lemons! |
Pilots Forum
PPruNE may have started off as a pilots forum but is has since morphed into something else.
Remove all non pilots from the forum and you would be left with 50 posters staging a pissing contest. |
Back Seat Driver,
Thanks for your reply and here's another question for you.Does anyone operate the A-380 into JFK? I wasn't going to reply to fun bags but I think this needs to be said. Originally posted by fun bags I don't profess to tell them how to run their meal service or deal with irate passengers. They are the experts there. You tell us everything from how to vote in OUR EBA to calling us arrogant and telling us we have no qualifications unlike pilots.It seems that your entire purpose is to provoke a fight with cabin crew and get them kicked out of PPrune by having their threads closed down.Yet at the same time you had this to say. I am not trying to get anyone kicked off. Cabin crew and anyone else aviation related are entitled to post anywhere they see fit on this site It is, as the name suggests, a pilot network. The arrogance of Syd based LHCC continues to astound The "what's in it for me" factor will ensure that the EBA is voted up by a huge majority. I just pity the poor B-Scalers that have to fly with you guys and gals, on much poorer pay and conditions as a result of this EBA. What you have to understand is that Qantas LHCC thinks themselves to be the best flight attendants in the world, and everyone else is second rate. Just look at their attitude lower seems to want to tell pilots everything about piloting stuff fun bags ,I think you should keep to your sphere of influence and let bygones be bygones. |
New Runways At LAX
LAX did in fact build another runway. 25L was completely dug up, and then moved I believe about 50 yards further south. This project was completely done before the A380 went into service. The reasoning was to provide additional wing tip clearance for all, as well as making the High Speed Exits usuable for the A340-500 without their butt or nose sticking out onto an active runway.
The North Complex has always been available to the A380. I was there the first day that one arrived. Airbus brought one over from France to test the new gates and ground movement. It landed on 24R...the most northern runway. The article that was quoted in the original post kind of sounds like sour apples on someones part to me. But I have no real knowledge of how the LAX ATC people really feel about the A380. Just my 2 cents. |
Not sure what that has to do with the topic. Anyway I heard the A180 was pulled off the JFK route and replaced with the B777.
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Emirates flies into JFK with the 380. Not sure what that has to do with the topic Anyway I heard the A180 was pulled off the JFK route and replaced with the B777. |
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