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-   -   Second Fake LAME Identifed (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/361173-second-fake-lame-identifed.html)

airsupport 7th Feb 2009 20:42

I find it incredible that this is happening, even once never mind maybe several times.

Surely it is up to the Employer to thoroughly check new Employees, and also current Employees who gain extra qualifications.

Also with current Employees surely fellow Workmates would know whether or not they had done more courses, exams, OJT etc.

1746 7th Feb 2009 21:03

A direct result of the complete dirth of inhouse training!

Another example of QE Management at work!

This management is quick to put their hands out for their bonuses now let us see them take responsibility publically!!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

hadagutfull 7th Feb 2009 22:11

Its a catch 22 with training.... Wait for ever for the company to train you or spend thousands of dollars and your annual leave and go buy a course only to be told by your manager that the company has decided they are not going to pay you or recognize it because we dont need that licence...... a :mad:ing kick in the face.

Whilst I dont condone anyone cheating the system, the folk that are smarter than ourselves, have made the licencing system a complete farce and left it wide open to be exploited.

What is auditing our licences going to do?
How many of you were outside your 2 year re-currency on your ETOPS or CTS ( that includes all the crap like maint memos, quality and risk read and signs,etc) and still certifying?

How many times has EQ lost some of your info or qualifications let alone try to find it in there.....

We never had this problem when there was a dedicated tech training department.... you were put into a classroom when your stuff was due

Again, its all about how much they saved not training. Now they should really take a close look at how much it is going to cost them.... not just in $$$$$

As for the system, how does it fail?? You sit the basics, CASA issues you the results and have a record on the database... Qantas or any training provider should confirm this with CASA before you sit a type course... the official results of your type exams go to CASA... when you apply for a licence or rating.... they have all the info. TOO EASY.
If that still does not work.... then put a pitch fork up CASA's butt!

toolowtoofast 7th Feb 2009 23:15


Originally Posted by airsupport (Post 4703121)
I find it incredible that this is happening, even once never mind maybe several times.

Surely it is up to the Employer to thoroughly check new Employees, and also current Employees who gain extra qualifications.

Also with current Employees surely fellow Workmates would know whether or not they had done more courses, exams, OJT etc.

i agree. maybe engineering need to take a leaf out of flight ops pages - or are there QF pilots flying around without a CPL?

DutchRoll 7th Feb 2009 23:31


.......- or are there QF pilots flying around without a CPL?
Sheesh don't put a hex on it now mate. The way I've seen QF's admin system work sometimes, that could be entirely possible, even in Flight Ops!

They are fully capable of screwing up literally anything, and CASA wouldn't have a clue until after it happens.

airsupport 7th Feb 2009 23:43

From what is posted here it would seem that the problem lies with Qantas, not CASA or the ALAEA or anyone else, except of course these Fake Engineers themselves.

I am not aware of this EVER happening before at any other Company, would that be correct, just Qantas and hopefully only recently?

another superlame 8th Feb 2009 02:30

Did this guy just sign for aircraft when no one was looking?

At least Tim Mc had tried to fit in to conceal his deceit. From the reports

so far it seems this person has just certified for a/c without anyone

noticing. If this is the case then it would be QFs fault for not picking

it up in an audit. If it is signed off with a licence number that looks

legit then who would suspect it was fake.

So management is wanting all LAMEs to produce their licences again,

but this wont help if the person who is signing doesn't have a licence

and is getting around in a blue shirt.

Can anyone confirm if this person has any relevant qualifications, eg

basics, type course, GA licence

Bumpfoh 8th Feb 2009 02:31

The Big House beckons
 

Or had he done a JTP course but wasn't on Eq and unable to sign.
Nope he definitely completed a QF 767 course in 2002 or there abouts. Question is did he legitimately pass all of the required basics (i.e AA) or not?

The QF system has him listed as an AME, not a LAME!

There alledgedly is a track record of deceit by this individual to the employer way back during his apprenticeship to the point of him being terminated only to be re-employed.:=

Good luck fool.:hmm:

another superlame 8th Feb 2009 02:46

There are that many top quality AMEs and single type LAMEs at QF that would give their left testicle for a company run type course. And idiots like this who QF gave a second chance by re-employing him and a third chance with a type course,the selection criteria leaves a lot to be desired if this is the result.
Did Tim Mc also do a company type course?

Bucaneer1979 8th Feb 2009 07:45

What blows me away is that these "fake engineers" are certifying QF a/c for the love of it. They are not getting paid any extra. Why bother?? Glory hunters maybe.

Ngineer 8th Feb 2009 08:46

Hopefully this will lead to a crack down on the fake managers also. Some of them deserve some considerable penance for their sins.

whatsupdoc 8th Feb 2009 09:22

Why did he get sacked as an apprentice???

Hasherucf 8th Feb 2009 09:57

Ever thought that it might be a case of workplace pressure to get things done that these people start signing out aircraft ? There not doing it for money and you cant do it for glory.

mahatmacoat 8th Feb 2009 20:14

As an apprentice he was sacked for forgery. On this occassion it was just a doctors certificate.

Gee this self regulation thing is working well isn't it. I had to sign a document declaring that I had only signed within the scope of my licence. I would think that anyone with the guts to sign aircraft out when they don't have a licence wouldn't have a problem with some letter to management. It seems more like an **** covering exercise.

airsupport 8th Feb 2009 20:46


Gee this self regulation thing is working well isn't it. I had to sign a document declaring that I had only signed within the scope of my licence. I would think that anyone with the guts to sign aircraft out when they don't have a licence wouldn't have a problem with some letter to management.
Exactly, how stupid is that.

IF that is all they are doing to stop it, then what a waste of time.

SCHAIRBUS 8th Feb 2009 23:21

This is an industry built on the honesty and integrity of the engineers and pilots that work in it.
The problem is not everyone is honest.
In the computer age it is far to easy to alter and forge documents.
Combine that with all the under resourced departments in the airlines and the regulator, then you have this situation occurring.
The only solution is vigilance by the guys on the job if somone turns with a license one day and it doesn't seem right there should be a way of checking them out.
A discrete email to CASA should be all that's required, a surveyor can do the rest.
I'm sure some will say this is a simplistic and naive solution but it beats trying to blame everyone.
Remember if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.
Speaking to people whom worked with Tim there were plenty of warning signs, it's also looking that way with the latest individual.

Lodown 8th Feb 2009 23:38

Hang on there a minute Schairbus.

"Under-resourced departments" is whose fault?

"Vigilance" is not the only solution. It's one of many.

"A discrete email"? No! A private, secure, but very public method of fact checking would be helpful. Why hasn't this been done, or why hasn't this picked up a problem especially after the last time?

Not blaming everyone. But there are several issues here and they appear to revolve around insufficient or inappropriate supervision.

If there were plenty of warning signs, where is the disconnect preventing the notification from reaching the appropriate people who could rectify the situation? Or was the situation just left to fester because no one felt compelled to spill the beans or were they waiting for a supervisor to fall on his/her sword?

If I were a CASA investigator, there'd be some straightforward actions as a result of the actions of a single individual. If, as you suggested, there were plenty of warning signs, I and a team of headhunters would be going through QF engineering like a dose of salts.

nut turner 8th Feb 2009 23:59

As mahatmacot has said, Self regulation doesn't work. Qantas and CASA had a pretty good system going, they granted the licence and Tech Training entered it into the system and along with QS&RM were the only ones who could make changes. Now to save some money they expect the individual to do it all on a system, eQ, that is so frustrating and difficult to use, is it any wonder problems arise. Where are the checks that should be in place, Tech Training won't do it, Training Co-ordinator gone, CASA and Quality shouldn't get away scott free either. The warning signs were there and they did nothing!

Lodown 9th Feb 2009 01:56


The warning signs were there and they did nothing!
Wow! Makes you wonder what other bombs are waiting to be discovered hopefully before they go off.

Yep, self-regulation works...just like a group of kids with a loaded gun. Seeya Byron.

K9P 9th Feb 2009 02:47

Yep, it just starts at the top and runs downhill.


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