[QUOTE]
greybeard

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth Australia
Age: 64
Posts: 94


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Hear is some facts which happened to me as an individual in the mess of 19 years ago

My phone was tapped
My life was threatened
As was my wife's
AS WAS MY CHILDREN'S
I was followed around my small semi country town until the local brigade sent him off
My exact hotel location in Europe was reported to my wife as I was in the company of "a beautiful young lady", and as my daughter they were quite right, she was and is.

I will remember all this, I have "got on with life" as so many have suggested we "must do" and am still contributing to Aviation in so called retirement, never been busier or happier in real terms.

JUST NEVER LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN, FIND SOME COMMON GROUND TO SORT IT ALL OUT IF THE CURRENT PILOTS HAVE THE WILL.




What??? This happened in a free world? Jeez, this is certainly shocking to me.

As for your so called dispute....well it set back my command upgrade by a few years when my company see it fit to accommodate those who " resigned " from Ansett & Australian ( so as not to lose your super? ). So that misguided " dispute " sure had far reaching effects on other pilots too!

An educated guess and it would be pretty safe to say that the last poster is Malaysian. And a Malaysian speaking utter drivel.

The huge influx of experienced Australians - both captains and FOs - into MAS in 1989-90 allowed that airline to expand to a degree that would simply never have been possible, even if they had promoted people like Kentot Besar - as they did, even with the Australians there - with absolute minimum experience.

For our Bumi brothers, promotion to the next (bigger) type was based on hours, so, until the Australians arrived, the Malaysian pilots logged their taxi times 3 minutes before they actually pushed, logged their chocks on three minutes after they parked the brakes, taxied at less than walking pace and dragged their aircraft in at minimum speeds from God only knows how far out to ALWAYS do a full instrument approach.

And as soon as they gained the required minimum experience, they were promoted - and when MAS had enough promotable locals, they dispensed with the services of the expats. So, like a few of our heroic friends, I think you might be falling into the trap of being a little selective in your memory, Kentot Besar.

Unfortunately the Age 60 rule forced so many competent pilots on to the scrap heap of the unemployed..

With that description, a new entrant could be forgiven for a little uncertainty as to which side you were on back then. Not sure if the AFAP had the capability of initiating a phone tap though. As always, many forget there were just as many who crossed the (invisible) picket line in Australian Airlines, as well. They backed the better horse, in the end, Is a "hero" the one who crossed the picket line or the one who walked out on a losing fight, having thrown it all away? Neither sounds very heroic to me. Ultimately, anyone here resorting to name-calling and the spewing forth of vitriole is probably too infantile to really have been involved in a war 20 years ago.

Just to clear the air, it wasn't the AFAP who did the things mentioned.

As to joining, was in the very beginning when this site was a continuous bulletin board, got lost in the "crash" of the system.

There were many positions overseas, France, Belgium, Holland,Germany, Switzerland in Europe alone, and contracts were run in accordance with the fluctuating demands, some are still there, most have gone.

My point was that the total "Bastardry" knew NO BOUNDARIES and should NEVER be forgotten and avoided at all costs in the future.

:ok:

We’re not all old and demented.

I was only a young F/O when the dispute happened and haven’t reached 50 yet, There is hundreds of us in this bracket and we will hopefully be around for a few years yet.

I wholeheartedly support Greybeards assertions. I also remember that Greybeard and other senior pilots at the time supported the young F/O’s as much as possible. They lent us money for mortgages and the like with no demands to pay it back. Most, like myself did pay it back as soon as practicable, but some never did.

Where are you going to get that sort of camaraderie today.

In the end the dispute for me was about your mates. I was looking out for them as most of them were looking out for me. Maybe I was naïve but I expected my colleagues to stick together and it was disappointing when the few did return.

As Greybeard and others have said – never let it happen again.

And as pilots you should be watching out for each other because no one else is going to!

There were a lot of generous people who came out of the woodwork in our town of Gisbourne Vic. There were a lot of aircrew there at the time, and the town had still not got over the loss of 2 Flt gingerbeers in Ash Wednesday. When we got the bullet, the policemans wife came around with some cake, the Doc would not let me pay for my daughters ear problems, the plumber only charged for the parts, the school got in touch and told me pay the fees when you can but don't stress about it, we have plenty of time, and the bank manager offered to help with any finance problems that he could adjust. This is of course the advantage of living in a small rural community, I would like to think it still happens today and probably does in the bush. I will never forget the kindness shown to us, and other aircrew affected, by the people of those small towns.

I think EVERYBODY LOST in 89.

I had a drink and remembered some great coworkers
Will never forget or forgive heroes
It saddens me that people have NOT learned from the past mistakes
Got on with my life, retired at 52 (something I would not have been able to do, if I had stayed with the airline), so please do not tell me to get a life.
PLEASE, PLEASE learn from the PAST

greybeard mon vieux, amen to that :ok: I wasn't one affected, but I felt a very deep sense of betrayal at the trashing of our so called democracy. And bushy is right too and that includes ALL Australians.

There will be several Brazilian rainforests in peril when a certain person goes to hell and the already written articles hit the stands.

I imagine they didn't carry out wire-tapping but let's face it; the AFAP and a good number of their staunchest supporters amongst the pilot body stooped to some pretty low levels (and, yes, so did the airline management) during attempts to pressure the heroes into not going back. Levels more commonly associated with the more mild end of the BLF. Reprehensible action regardless of which side perpetrated it. Am I? I know people on both sides and I know all about the feelings. I have a distinct opinion on the whole sorry affair and it shouldn't be too hard to determine it and, no, I was not involved directly. But I was still affected, career-wise as well as financially. As were tens of thousands of people who suffered financially because of that action that a small number of people took. So whilst I sympathise with the end which was the goal of the pilots, please open your eyes a little further and try not to be so selfish in your outlook. It's far too late. As has been pointed out, the future is being decided today by youngsters who know little about 1989 and nor do they care. They are flying Shiny Jets. Maybe a course on '89 and Industrial Relations should be made a part of the CPL syllabus.

By the way, here's to the '89ers who quietly packed up and left without looking back, thereby upholding their personal morals and sense of honour; who did so without first having lowered themselves to throwing eggs, clicking clackers, making abusive midnight phone calls or threats, defacing or destroying the personal property of others and then sneaking off into the dark in an anonymous and cowardly fashion, etc, etc, etc..... no doubt you are men of honour and I'd buy you a drink. As an outsider, I'm not sure what can be said about the other side other than that some of them are nice guys, regardless.

...so, the future is being decided by "youngsters"... like you, Eclan?

Strewth!...God help us all! :ok::ok::ok:

I wish. Not so young, Obie. What does 15300hrs get me....!!?? Another few years and I might've been involved myself but only, I believe, on the one side and not the other. I'd have ended up overseas. Sorry if I sound condescending. Just trying to be even-handed.

You see, the problem we have with you Eclan, is that you're a "fence sitter".

You say your position is clear, and the side your on is clear, but it's not!

You are obfuscating, and you know it!

After 19 yrs we're all a bit tired of neutrals, like you, trying to be all things to all people on all sides!

It wears a bit thin, Mate! :=

It's a known fact that the strike was the best thing that ever happened to Aussie aviation. It reset the reality check machine perfectly.

A bunch of ego driven and highly underworked pilots who were being paid fairly at the time wanted to try and hold a nation to ransom. They got slapped in the face, kicked in the rear end and, 19 years on, still have not come to terms with the humiliation of their shameful loss.

For all those who post on here saying that their phones were bugged and they were followed by men in dark coats and suglasses. It never happened. That's just the paranoia which comes from drinking too much and spending too many hours alone dwelling on the past.

In fact, the broom needs a good push through the industry again to collect the rubbish it missed back in '89.

Well, I think we can see where this is heading.:*