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-   -   'Renegade' controllers leave pilots flying blind: air chief (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/336619-renegade-controllers-leave-pilots-flying-blind-air-chief.html)

Lodown 31st Jul 2008 16:42

I'm at a loss to understand why the talk of strike action. All it does is harden the resolve of everyone concerned and gets the public offside with the controllers. If I understand correctly, the way things are progressing, come December, AsA won't have the ATC numbers to provide a comprehensive service anyway. You won't have to take action, express opinions or anything else. Just do your jobs and take home the pay cheque. The board of ASA has made its own bed. Simply let them lie in it. Whether it's this December or next, from what is mentioned here, through normal attrition (and a complete absence of forethought and consideration), AsA won't be short just a few controllers, but an enormous number.

There are a few non-ATC people willing to let these things sort themselves out too. If you were in favour of privatised ATC, the AsA board is doing everything right to serve up privatised ATC services on a platter with an outstanding sauce and accompanying vintage wine. Just be seated at the table with an appetite.

Funk 31st Jul 2008 21:23


I'm at a loss to understand why the talk of strike action. All it does is harden the resolve of everyone concerned and gets the public offside with the controllers. If I understand correctly, the way things are progressing, come December, AsA won't have the ATC numbers to provide a comprehensive service anyway. You won't have to take action, express opinions or anything else. Just do your jobs and take home the pay cheque. The board of ASA has made its own bed. Simply let them lie in it. Whether it's this December or next, from what is mentioned here, through normal attrition (and a complete absence of forethought and consideration), AsA won't be short just a few controllers, but an enormous number.

There are a few non-ATC people willing to let these things sort themselves out too. If you were in favour of privatised ATC, the AsA board is doing everything right to serve up privatised ATC services on a platter with an outstanding sauce and accompanying vintage wine. Just be seated at the table with an appetite.
If you take the option of strike action off the table (other forms of industrial action now outlawed) then you might as well cave in now like Civil Air and the rank & file have done for the last 15 years at least.

In so far as privatization is concerned don't fear it, no more political appointments and decisions based on real economics not some pseudo rubbish we have witnessed since 1995. Really who in business would allow that ALM bull****.

There is no going back to the 60's or 70's public service days. Our aviation colleagues in the airlines have fared no better or worse in private employment.

BN_centre 31st Jul 2008 22:19

Can someone please explain to me how recruiting a course which will not get rated until 2011 fulfils TFN's promise of the erasing the staff shortfall in a month??? :confused:

divingduck 31st Jul 2008 23:33

bn centre
 
You are obviously not a manager then if you can't work that out!:ugh::ugh:

Anyway, who was talking of strike action? How about an overtime ban?
That should focus the minds of the higherups in a heartbeat.
You should make a big beat up in the media for the month ahead of the ban, run with the ban for two weeks to a month, and let the chips fall where they may.
You might have to "discuss" the nature of the problem with those that can't help themselves coming in for that extra cash, but you get them in every organization, and better still, everyone will know who they are.:suspect:
Bring some media into the centre on a "fact finding mission". Take photos with your whiz bang mobile phone and post them on the internet of empty consoles (under an assumed name of course):}
Take the fight to the bar stewards, stop standing there getting hit!
Trying to act all mature, long suffering and reasonable hasn't worked in the past so why would anyone think it will work in the future?
Short term pain, long term gain....for everyone.

Bill Woodfull 1st Aug 2008 04:57

There will be no need for strike action IMHO.

Airservices says we have 972 Operational Controllers and are 17 short.

We actually have around 750 'moving metal' controllers which makes us 220ish short.

Between now and christmas we will lose say at least another 12-15 to resignation/retirement/VR etc (we have lost about 4 the last few days). Hopefully we will pick up 12-15 new ratings in that period.

End result? 220 short. Its a house of cards built on a fold town tray table and the FO (Civilair) mentions to the Capt (Alan Woods Building) that he is reading a SIGMET outling forecast MOD CAT ahead. "Shall I make a PA announcement and tell the pax?", "No need the WX radar looks fine, tell them the weather ahead is beaut and we will be on time", "But Captain, its Clear Air Turbulence and the Sigmet says...".

The issue is have we passed the PNR (point of no return)?

We don't have to do anything. Go to work, be professional - Levels 1, 2 and 3 are punching the holes in the cheese slices.

Teal 1st Aug 2008 05:28

From crikey.com.au


AirServices memo fails to shift the blame

Ben Sandilands writes:

A rambling memo sent out by AirServices Australia CEO Greg Russell to his staff this week should be enough to end his career. AirServices Australia is no longer delivering its product: the continuous safe separation of airliners in controlled air space. It has been criticised for this by its two major customers, Qantas and Virgin Blue. Tiger Airways this morning complained about the cost burden of flying around uncontrolled air space because it refuses to use those areas on safety grounds.

Departing CASA CEO Bruce Byron has also criticised AirServices Australia, as has ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organisation. AirServices has even undermined its income base by failing to provide its airline customers with the product for which they pay. No control means no fees. And it has serious safety implications.

Russell may well be right about the amazing coincidence between controllers not presenting for duty on their days off or for additional overtime when pay negotiations are underway. But that’s the job of any CEO to anticipate and manage. It has not been managed at AirServices. It has been allowed to fall into a heap. When overseas flights are approaching an Australian city with legal fuel reserves and are suddenly confronted with no air traffic control for the final stage of the flight to the destination or to the flight-plan-filed alternative airport to which they would divert in the event of fog or adverse winds, they are confronted with conditions their standard operation procedures forbid, and marginal if not inadequate fuel reserves. This is an intolerably dangerous situation. It cannot be remedied simply by bullying people who are drop dead tired to work yet another additional shift. The rules governing air traffic controller rostering also forbid such a solution. This needs to be fixed immediately.

max1 1st Aug 2008 09:40

A good couple of questions to ask TFN , of which he would have no idea of the answers.
' How many times has TIBA been avoided or shortened because a controller came in early on short notice to start their shift, or stayed back late , or came in at short notice on their day off, or allowed their roster to be changed to cover holes?'
Also how often is their airspace kept open with less than required staff, consoles done on combine, etc, etc, and for how many years have these practices been going on?
Is it true that it is cheaper to rely on your controllers doing 'excessive O/T to bump up the bottom line, than hire more?
Is your remuneration directly tied to this bottom line?

The potential for TIBA has been around for years, and there have been incidences. The line about it being tied to the EBA is a convenient scapegoat for someone who has ignored the problem for years. The management decision to create the non-operational ALMs in October was the final straw.

The Aviation Bureaucrats had removed themselves that far from the day-to-day running of the core business, that, they believed that controllers professional pride in keeping the airspace open was inexhaustible.
That our calls for years to staff the place properly and look at the age profiles was all about money. I suppose if your only motivation is the Almighty Dollar, it is reasonable to assume that is what everybody thinks.

It is a high pressure environment, when someone makes a mistake it affects those around them. When you see workmates coming in with their eyeballs hanging out, having major health problems and going through break-ups because of the pressure to attend for work on their days off, and realise that no-one at the top gives a toss, you tend to re-assess your priorities.

Thank you Greg Russell you, and your profit driven sycophants, helped us get there.

hoggsnortrupert 1st Aug 2008 10:11

CEO's
 
I have a question:

It would be of interest to know how many CEO's of today started:
1/ As an apprentice on the shop floor.
2/ As a junior doctor on the ward.
3/ As a local council worker.
4/ As a teacher.
5/ As a Commercial pilot.
6/ As a community constable.
7/ As a whatever????

My point is that today we generate them with a degree in business management, or human science, we the community/tax payer, then pay them 100's of thousands of dollars per year, and to get change? or have a problem in the making recognised? they have a board, how do you get a board to understand? if you are lucky enough to have it get to board level, they enlist the expertise of numerous consultants also with degrees in human science, business, and then only if you are very lucky,after maybe 12 months they tell us what we are telling them.

Of days gone by, my late Grandfather rose to be head of the dairy factory, but only after he started as the factory apprentice fleet mechanic, then as cheese maker, milk powerder processor, packing shed hand, cream/milk truck driver, etc etc, the point is he left school at 13, and started with the factory, and never left.

When it goes wrong, a govt enquiry or whatever will find fault with some manager or other, never the CEO.

Call me a synyc or whatever, but but and but, the more I see the more I do not understand, then again at 52 maybe I am just to slow for the change in the world.

we live in a world where common sense is :

1/ Not common.
2/ Not sensible.

and as for discretion bought about by experiance, forget it.

I rekon, round up all the politicians,lawyers,CEO's, and slot the lot of them.:E

But hey thats not using comon sense.:=

Yep holes lining up in the swiss cheese and no one wants to know:

Chrs
H/Snort

cbradio 1st Aug 2008 10:20

another great post max1 :D - I really hope someone in BS castle is passing them on (they probably are for all the wrong reasons - keep your head down!).

max1 1st Aug 2008 10:36

cbradio,
I am sure many controllers would ask him to his face.




If we ever saw him.



I've seen him on telly though.

No Further Requirements 1st Aug 2008 10:40

The problem these days is that when CEOs go to a new position, all they get asked is "How much did you increase profit and decrease expenditure?" No talk of "How did your customers rate you?" or "How satisfied were your employees with your performance?" It's all about money. I think this kind of thinking will end in tears soon - witness Don Smallgoods and Datmoor woodmill shut downs....

Cheers,

NFR.

Baileys 1st Aug 2008 15:41

New Software System Calculates ATC Numbers
 
New Software System Calculates ATC Numbers

New Software System Announced

MEMO
To: All Air Traffic Controllers
From: ASA CEO
Re: MYASS

This memo is to announce the development of a new ATC Staff Number Counting Software System. We are currently building a new Canberra based data center that will contain all ATC Staff Numbers data since the Year 2000. The program is referred to as the "Millennia Year Application Software System" (MYASS).

Next Monday at 9:00 there will be a meeting in which I will show MYASS to everyone. We will continue to hold demonstrations throughout the month so that all employees will have an opportunity to get a good look at MYASS.

As for the status of the implementation of the program, I have not addressed the networking aspects so currently only one person at a time can use MYASS. This restriction will be removed after MYASS expands.

Several recently promoted managers are using the program already and have come to depend on it. Just this morning I walked into a subordinate's office and was not surprised to find that he had his nose buried in MYASS. I've noticed that some of the less technical personnel and ATC's are somewhat afraid of MYASS.

Just last week, when asked to enter some information into the program, I had the GM ATC say "I'm a little nervous, I've never put anything in MYASS before." I volunteered to help him through his first time and when we were through he admitted that it was relatively painless and he was actually looking forward to doing it again. He went so far as to say that after using SAP and Oracle, he was ready to kiss MYASS.

I know there are concerns over the virus that was found in MYASS at the beginning of 2008, but I am pleased to say the virus has been eliminated and we were able to save MYASS. In the future, however, protection will be required prior to entering MYASS.

We planned this database to encompass all information associated with the business. So as you begin using the program, feel free to put anything you want into MYASS. As MYASS grows larger, we envision a time when it will be commonplace to walk by an office and see a manager hand a paper to an employee and say "Here, stick this in MYASS."

This program has already demonstrated great benefit to ASA during recent CASA and ICAO audits. After requesting certain historical data the agency representatives were amazed at how quickly we provided the information. When asked how the numbers could be retrieved so rapidly our CASA Relationship Manager proudly stated "Simple, I just pulled them out of MYASS."

Tarq57 2nd Aug 2008 03:41

:D:D:D:D:D

Is the interface software or hardware-based?

BeGoneTFN 2nd Aug 2008 07:37

Please ask the question
 
I wish one of you MEDIA types would ask TFN exactly how long he has been trying to address the staffing crisis (this is the one question he seems to dodge wonderfuly well).

Despite the fact he actually created the current disaster, he has been in the job for nearly four years and yet he is still shifting the blame to others, claiming that Mr B S left the place in a state (give me a break).

After the 7.30 report one would have thought he has just arrived and is striving to save the situation OMG what a laugh!

TFN is engaged in a cover up to save his own arse. I believe it will only be a matter of time before PC and his like get the bullet the final act of cowardice to save his bonus.

Thats another question, how on earth did he get his massive bonus if when he arrived he had identified a lack of staff planning yet we are still in the sh*thouse.

Given TSIT when fully cranked up with the masses of resources thrown at it could pump out a max of 50-70 trainees a year the current academy stands a snowflakes chance in hell of achieving 500 in 5 years.

Sorry, I forgot that the staff situation will be solved next month. I guess the TGO's featured in the TWR simulator footage on the 7.30 report are progressing extremely well.

BgTFN :ok:

Chu Mai Huang 2nd Aug 2008 12:51

Wasn't just TGO's shown in the new tower sim...... lots of others shown there in the other sim I'm told. No 'real' air traffic controllers there to film? Guess not......:(

Scurvy.D.Dog 2nd Aug 2008 13:10

Elmer Fudd .. and co .. :rolleyes: ... yup, the college pinnacle :hmm:
.
.
... hey old Disney pig a.k.a da guru (in yer own lunch box) ... be careful what you say about real controllers mate ;) .. she would run rings around you all day, every day, 365 days a year ... every year! :D
.
... ya fool!! :suspect:

wolf_wolf 2nd Aug 2008 16:25

For the record journalist types - Mr Russell was repeatedly told in 4 separate "no BS" meetings with Brisbane ATC staff in 2005, that a "lack of ATC staffing" was the most critical issue to the business. Up to 40 staff members attended each of these meetings that were held over several days in the Brisbane ATSC. They were specifically requested by the CEO himself to address "staff concerns". He cannot now say on the 1930 Report that he was not aware of how serious the problem was. HE WAS CLEARLY TOLD !! HE WAS CLEARLY WARNED !! He has had three years to fix the problem. No result. :ugh:

A vote of no confidence please... :=

hoggsnortrupert 2nd Aug 2008 23:46

Fitting sentiments:
 
The use of Common Sense and his close friend Logic is banned in the Pacific.
They are too confusing....

An Obituary printed in the London Times........ interesting and sadly
rather true.

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who
has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was,
since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.He
will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
* Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
* Why the early bird gets the worm;
* Life isn't always fair;
* and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend
more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children,
are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but
overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy
charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens
suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher
fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the
job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children. It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student;
but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted
to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses;
and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a
burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in
her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust
his wife, Discretion his daughter, Responsibility his son, Reason.
He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
* I Know My Rights
* I Want It Now
* Someone Else Is To Blame
* I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If
you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do
nothing.

Recieved from an OLD friend & retired Aviator/pilot, rather fitting I think!

Chr's
H/Snort.

undervaluedATC 3rd Aug 2008 01:28

MEDIA TYPES: this ongoing excuse of "not having a staffing plan" when TFN arrived 3 years ago is wearing thin.

How much time would it take to look at employee records and just graph the age profile? 3 years ago, there were 1000 ATC'ers - give or take - any clerk could have gotten a rough outline of just the age profile in less than a week.

Then all they had to do was remember that in 2005:
i) most aged late 40's are allowed to access their superannuation at 50,
ii) late 30's/early 40's are allowed to access their super at 55
etc.

without even having to ask individual intentions/personal circumstance, a rough outline of staffing requirements due retirement could have been formed quickly and with little effort. It's not a black art - it's basic maths.

being aware/reminded that the recruitment and selection process typically takes 12 months, and training at the college another 12 months [with pass rates ranging from 50% to 75% or original intake], then a further 6 months to initial endorsment, and up to 5 years to become a full performance controller should have helped them realise they were potentially already behind the eight ball.

and we told them they were at the staff meetings in 2005.

Obviously our concerns were not taken seriously. But to take 107 controllers away from separating traffic at the end of 2007, with no surge in recruitment...... well, by then, TFN had 2 years in the organisation to realise it really does take 2 to 2+1/2 years to get replacements....

there is just no way TFN could have been ignorant of this potential situation. And not to fix in 3 years - well there's a word for that, starting with N, but I don't want to get done for libel.

but I guess it's sooooo much easier to try and blame (or create) "renegade controllers" for the current "service interruptions"

BN_centre 3rd Aug 2008 03:58

I can no longer find the current certified agreement on the wagenet.gov.au site. Can anyone else see it?

Super G 3rd Aug 2008 04:27

How many would return?
 
As a qualified and experienced controller now residing and controlling overseas I have watched with great sadness the situation unfolding in my homeland where good men and women are having their lives and those of their families unnecessarily disrupted by the lack of foresight and downright mismanagement from those who call themselves 'leaders' of AsA.

You see I have had my application on the AsA web site to return to Australia for nearly 4 years, updated only recently, yet the silence from AsA has been deafening.
Without going into too much detail regarding my experience and qualifications lest I be identified by the 'thought police', I have been controlling for the last 11 years in four different countries, trained in Australia by her military, have radar and procedural ratings and experience in tower, approach and area and even moonlight as a commercial pilot with ATPL subjects. Maybe when years ago I politely declined to accept a training position in Melbourne Centre, when I was quite happy in my then position a long way overseas, I may have been black balled?

I'm not the only Aussie expat controller who would like the chance to return to her shores. I know of at least 3 very experienced controllers who are still getting the cold shoulder from AsA. Surely these experienced people could be brought into the AsA training system in very short order in attempt to address the chronic shortages? But I guess when you've got a chief executive who claims 'there is no shortage' then I've probably answered my own question.

Does anybody here either have a desire to return to Australia (and would work for AsA) or know of anyone who would? Might give us all an idea of how many potential experienced bodies are out there who could help alleviate the chronic problems now facing the guys and girls in Oz. Keep your chin up guys. This can't go on forever.

G

flightfocus 3rd Aug 2008 04:46

Super G,

Right now that cold shoulder is a blessing in disguise - things ARE that bad. You would be soon wondering what the hell you were doing here.

The lunatics have taken over (and have been running!) the asylum for some time now... :{

Nautilus Blue 3rd Aug 2008 06:26

TFN did know about the staffing problems, he just had more important things to do ;

'When I came into this business two and a half years ago I was immediately confronted with a whole range of issues and you can’t always do everything at the same time. What we did in the first instance was to restructure the business and to work on our fundamental systems – our HR systems, our finance systems – which were in need of a great deal of work. At the same time though, I was very mindful of the fact that our air traffic controllers were telling me that there were shortages of staff.'

Azimuth 'Candid CEO Interview' Jan 2008

SM4 Pirate 3rd Aug 2008 06:41


At the same time though, I was very mindful of the fact that our air traffic controllers were telling me that there were shortages of staff.'
And what did he do, ignored it, hoped it went away, thought to himself they are full of sh!t? Cut training and reduced abinitio intakes. Now he's caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Surely he must hand back those massive bonuses he got, funded essentially by budget cuts; the same cuts that have 'crippled' the continuity of business a short 2 years after he made them.

Greg Russell should do the honourable thing and resign; of course he won't.

KittyKatKaper 3rd Aug 2008 07:41


What we did in the first instance was to restructure the business and to work on our fundamental systems – our HR systems, our finance systems – which were in need of a great deal of work
Oh,that quote from Azimuth is priceless !
It implies (to me), that an ATC service (the stuff that the customers actually have to pay for) is not 'fundamental' to ASA.

aussiegal 3rd Aug 2008 07:54

Super G, not sure where you're located but i had heard a couple of ex-ml tcu controllers are coming back later this year, i think they'd relocated to honkers several years ago. It would appear very short sighted to overlook people such as yourself and the others you mention but as i think someone mentioned ..... asylums ..... etc

ferris 3rd Aug 2008 08:16


I was immediately confronted with a whole range of issues and you can’t always do everything at the same time
This guy is the CEO?

ooohhhhh baby!

If he was earning 35k a year, and in charge of the tea trolley, you might accept such a statement.

edit; I retract that last statement. Most tea trolley operators could do several things/everything at once. In particular, they could make tea (their core business).

max1 3rd Aug 2008 13:01

Super G, get your arse back here pronto!!!!!!

LapSap 3rd Aug 2008 14:16


i had heard a couple of ex-ml tcu controllers are coming back later this year, i think they'd relocated to honkers several years ago.
Only a couple? :E:E:}:ok:

undervaluedATC 4th Aug 2008 20:56

from www.civilair.asn.au


Monday, 04 August 2008 Press Release Air Traffic Control and Airspace Closures

Allegations that “renegade” controllers are deliberately masterminding Australian airspace closures by way of unjustified sick leave spike are without substance. In Airservices’ annual “Waypoint” presentation to industry in June, General Manager ATC Jason Harfield observed that “Like all workplaces we are affected by illness and other personnel issues.”

Recently Airservices circulated information internally indicating that sick leave has remained substantially unchanged across the past 3 years but that overtime take up to cover staff absences and systemic staffing shortfalls has decreased. Critically, the number of staff willing to undertake overtime appears to be reducing as Airservices places more and more reliance upon it. Recent figures indicate expected seasonal sick leave patterns. Airservices has acknowledged as recently as this week in several forums that this is not a union coordinated activity preferring to blame a small number of “renegade” employees. Sick leave figures continue to sit at around 11.5 days lost per controller. This figure is above the national average but consistent with other 24 hour 365 day per year occupations.

Airservices seems bent on shifting the blame to those that have been holding a failing system together, rather than accepting the consequences of its own mismanagement of human resources across an extended period of time. Airservices fails to acknowledge the severe effect of long term reliance on overtime upon staff morale, health and welfare. Australian Air Traffic Controllers have supported the system for years during staff shortages whilst various management and operational restructures have reduced staff availability and flexibility. The simple truth is that the system has been unsustainable for some time and shortfalls were dramatically exacerbated by redeployment of a significant number of operational controllers into management and supervisory roles commencing March 2007.

Airservices erroneously quotes a current shortage of 17 controllers but internally estimates that this minimum staffing figure is unsustainable. Further, the proposal to train 100 controllers a year is currently unattainable with the ATC Academy only able to deliver 60 trainees per annum as currently resourced. Constant restructuring in pursuit of apparently unattainable corporate efficiencies is preventing successful recovery from the trouble torn environment we face each and every day. With yet another ATC reform project commencing, we hold grave fears for the future.

Air Traffic Controllers are part of the solution, not the problem.

BeGoneTFN 6th Aug 2008 02:17

I do believe that the above mentioned press release SAYS IT ALL!

Well done Civil Air, the approach taken to the assault by ASA has been calm, mature and well managed. Let them look like d*ckheads!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

max1 8th Aug 2008 23:30

The latest from ASA in EBA negotiations

"Overtime – they propose a new additional hours provision that an employee has an obligation to work a reasonable amount of additional hours and your ability to refuse to work for reasons associated with health or family etc will be assessed for reasonableness by your manager. Their expectation of what is reasonable is up to one additional shift per fortnight."

This means that on MY ROSTERED DAY OFF, no reserve or standby payments, that if they ring they will assess if my kids footy game, birthday, dance concert, my rest, is important enough to continue with my UNPAID day off or whether they will direct me to come to work. Which way does anyone think they will go when 'assessing'?

What a fantastic employer, "Our People-Our Committment".

ASA have neglected staffing so badly, that they want the power to decide what you now do on your UNPAID day-off. Its one day a fortnight, but they will give you only a couple of hours notice of what day they decide it will be, and expect you to cancel any plans and be obligated to attend.

This is their committment to work/life balance. If I wanted to be a 'beck-and-call boy' I would have taken up the worlds oldest profession. Mind you sometimes I feel like I'm getting the same result.

BN APP 125.6 9th Aug 2008 01:42

If they think a big stick like that is going to be the approach needed, it just goes to show how delusional and out of touch the millions of managers are.

Maybe it is bathing in that ever deepr bathtub of money coming from airline passengers each day each day.

Perhaps it is a competition amongst the extra 100 (airline funded) managers we now have to see who can be the stupidest.

We must be getting close to a 1:1 Manager:Money Earner ratio surely?

Just imagine if they (still) had ATC licences - we might even be able to keep the airspace open most of the time.

Good idea - get rid of controllers, make them managers and then force the remaining controllers to do more overtime to cover the new shortfall of controllers.

How about.... No. How about you take your stupid ideas and shove them fair and square up your ever fattening bottom line. Come up with something resembling reality if you are serious as you claim about negotiating in good faith. So far all we have seen is a fanciful policy approaching human rights violations that must have been drafted by Peter Reith, Tony Abbott, Heather Ridout, Peter Hendy, John Howard, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan, Robert Mugabe, Joseph Goebbels, Lucifer & The Solid Gold Dancers whilst they were freebasing some serious combinations of pharmacalogical product.

Quokka 9th Aug 2008 13:27

How about this for a proposal...

1. Maximum number of shifts in a row that can be rostered or worked, including Standby, excluding Mutual Change of Shift, shall be six shifts. No less than two days off shall be rostered following a shift cycle. No less than four days off shall be rostered following a night shift. No controller shall attend for work following a night shift, including Standby, for a period of four days. No controller shall attend for more than six shifts in any ten day period. No controller shall be called to attend for duty during rostered days off.

2. One Standby Shift (Grey Day or Grey Evening) shall be rostered per month and shall be included in the normal rostered shift cycle.

3. Rosters shall be published three months in advance and shall include a period of twelve months of rostered shifts and Recreation Leave.

4. 48 days Annual Recreation Leave each year. No leave to be carried forward to subsequent years.

Pick a salary that is commensurate to what you are earning now with overtime and Market Forces determine. That is the salary that every controller, regardless of years-of-service, or position in the ATC management-determined social pecking order, will be paid. No management-discretion progression through increments.

Nothing left to interpretation and manipulation will result in no dispute, no harassment, no adversarial relationship... no morale problem. The service gets provided and everyone is happy.

Keep It Simple.

ferris 9th Aug 2008 15:26

The only further suggestion I can offer is the introduction of an ATC allowence. ie. if you are in a traffic separating position, you get an allowence of say, $50k per year. Then they could have a 'salary' component of say, $130k per year plus the allowence for those who actually have sep responsibilities. That way, managers can earn more than their underlings, say $140k per year, and everyone would be happy.
Govt happy- can announce salary reductions across the organisation
Controllers happy- more money at the end of the day
Managers happy- their salary is higher than their subordinates, and they wont feel guilty about collecting huge salaries when their actual responsibilities dont' warrant it (not separating traffic, not working shiftwork etc. Basically at the level of a call centre team leader- except paid more for some reason).

Jungmeister 10th Aug 2008 09:25

Ferris,

As a "former ATCO" presumably in OZ you will no doubt remember that is how it always used to be. Do you also remember the quality of people who were inclined to be "managers"? Do you remember when the ATC system was managed by Engineers? Do you remember the mutterings from all the talented people in the field?
The workers are never likely to be happy - no matter what the system.
J

Quokka 10th Aug 2008 11:27


The workers are never likely to be happy - no matter what the system.
I agree... but it's the difference between watching them walk out the door... or staying and plugging in at the console, bitter and twisted or not. Which scenario do we need now?

ferris 10th Aug 2008 15:00

J.

I agree that if being a manager will get you a pay reduction, then there are not going to be a lot of people interested. But where has paying managers more got the organisation? I really can't see the justification in having SO MANY people, not holding ratings, and getting paid SO MUCH. If AsA is truly a business, where does it get off paying people who are effectively doing the job of a call-centre team leader, getting paid close to 200k? It is my understanding that people who are not ATCs are now ALMs, so having a license isn't important. What justifies the salary? The organisation is screaming out for controllers- closing airpsace etc in INTERNATIONALLY EMBARRASSING FASHION, so there has to be something seriously wrong when they haven't got every man, woman and child capable of holding a rating, doing so.

But everyone who works there knows that. What will it take for the board or the minister to act? Instead, AsA pretends to enter EBA negotiations by telling the controllers what AsA wants to remove in the way of T&C? Unf***ing believable! Maybe some managers could go on a fact-finding trip around the world to see how actual businesses attract and retain talent? This stuff is brain-surgery, for sure.

The REALLY, REALLY sad thing is it could be a great place to work.

Baileys 10th Aug 2008 15:22

The Australian - Air restrictions fly in face of safety claims
 
August 11, 2008

THE Civil Aviation Safety Authority will restrict the number of passenger jets flying through uncontrolled skies, contradicting the Government's claims that the practice is perfectly safe.

The move is the first tacit admission by authorities that the risk of a mid-air collision in uncontrolled airspace in unacceptably high and that something needs to be done.

CASA has called on the air traffic control manager of Airservices Australia to place new restrictions on airspace when there is no air traffic controller available to monitor that portion of sky.

The move follows a series of articles in The Australian that have disclosed the dangers of uncontrolled airspace, highlighting safety warnings from pilots, air traffic controllers and aviation experts.

A shortage of air traffic controllers has increasingly left large parts of Australian skies uncontrolled, forcing pilots to rely on other pilots to avoid mid-air collisions.

The government-owned ASA has said repeatedly that the practice of flying in uncontrolled airspace, using only radio and visual sightings, is safe. But CASA now wants ASA to declare all uncontrolled airspace a "temporary restricted area" -- meaning no plane can fly in or out of this airspace without approval. This gives authorities a way to limit the number of planes that enter uncontrolled airspace and separate them more precisely before they enter the uncontrolled zone.

It means pilots will still be flying blind but with fewer other aircraft in the vicinity and better spacing, reducing the chances of a mid-air collision.

However, the new system could cause delays to those aircraft which are not approved to fly through the uncontrolled zone, adding to costs and inconvenience to passengers.

"We have asked (ASA) to look at TRA as an alternative to (uncontrolled airspace) because it gives a greater ability to be aware of all the traffic in that airspace," said CASA spokesman Peter Gibson.

A spokesman for ASA, Richard Dudley, said the service agreed late last week to CASA's request for uncontrolled airspace in Australia to be designated as TRA.

CASA has been increasingly frustrated by the air safety implications arising from a shortage of air traffic controllers.

The shortage has come about through mismanagement by ASA, which has failed to recruit enough controllers to offset large numbers of retirements and poaching from overseas.

ASA accuses air traffic controllers of contributing to the problem by calling in sick and refusing to work extra shifts in an effort to highlight the shortage and help their forthcoming wage claim.

Last Friday, a massive area of airspace between Brisbane and Cairns was left uncontrolled between midnight and 5.30am after a controller called in sick.

According to an ASA "service interruption" report on the incident, six other controllers declined to cover the sick man's shift while four others were uncontactable.

ASA head Greg Russell has accused a small group of "renegade" controllers of leaving the skies uncontrolled to boost their industrial clout in looming wage negotiations.

But the air traffic control union, Civil Air, says ASA is looking to deflect blame for its own failings. "Airservices seems bent on shifting the blame to those who have been holding a failing system together, rather than accepting the consequences of its own mismanagement of human resources across an extended period of time," Civil Air president Robert Mason said.

The Sydney tower alone has lost four controllers through resignation or retirement in the past two weeks.

Super G 10th Aug 2008 21:04

mmmmmmm..........on second thoughts, I think I'll just stay here and sail, dive and fish on my days off. How do I withdraw that application...........??

Great article. At least someone in the press has finally used the words 'AsA' and 'mismanagement' in the same sentence.

Good luck to you guys.........would the last one to leave please turn off the runway lights..............

G


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