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-   -   Merged: Tiger Tales (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/335986-merged-tiger-tales.html)

Xcel 4th Jul 2011 03:17

I just jumped on to check again... And it seems I am wrong...

Tried yesterday and it was a no go... Fares didn't display.
Seems that it's all as per normal now... Might of been a server or computer
issue..

And is it just me or will the insurance tag not work for everyone :confused:

Edit: nope just me - tried on other computer - I'm so illiterate

Anyways carry on :}

Xcel 4th Jul 2011 03:26

Aaa see I wasn't going crazy - tiger just doing backflips over what there doing...

Tiger temporarily suspends ticket sales - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

And seems they have other trouble overseas too... Uh oh :ok:

Philippines orders Tiger Airways to stop seat sale | Asian Correspondent

ReverseFlight 4th Jul 2011 03:28

Like many Ppruners here, I have flown the 18 ILS at AV and would say it is not too overly complicated. I have also seen at first hand how Tiger pilots are trained in the A320 sim for circling approaches and that training is nothing short of first-class (while not defending Tiger the airline though).

I have a personal suggestion for the shareholders of Tiger : apart from getting your act together, find a substantial Australian partner to strengthen your local political connections. The painful demise of Ansett is still too fresh on our minds but the lessons have not yet been learnt.

Mr. Hat 4th Jul 2011 03:30

What happened to the crew from the avalon flight?

I suspect some of the employees have found Strategic's website over the weekend.

Okie 4th Jul 2011 06:00

ReverseFlight, AVV 18 ILS is a pretty simple approach as you say. It does have a local anomaly that can get you in trouble. In a strong NW wind, I think the Yoo Yangs block the wind below the summits. On final about the time configuring commences, the wind diminishes from a strong tailwind to a light one or even a westerly breeze. I know a lot of software experts will tell me I am wrong, but I only report what happens. With the strong tailwind going to a light or no tailwind, the plane interprets this as a headwind. The IAS increases and it is difficult to slow down to extend the flaps. I have required gear down out of sequence and speed brakes to get the speed below max Config Full extension speed. If you expect this, no problem. If not, it can get you into an unstable approach very easily. Don't know if this is what happened last week, but could be a possibility of why the missed approach was executed.

The insinuations previously about the check and training deficiencies are utterly and completely false. From the chief pilot down, all are talented, hard working, and dedicated. Actions by individual pilots do not in any way reflect on their abilities or the department as a whole. At no time has there been any directions from management about fuel carriage and no questions have ever been asked about the the reasons for extra. At no time has management ever directed questionable procedures to improve on-time performance. No management questions have ever been made to pilots who think their aircraft needs engineering support. Tiger pilots have more OFF or STBY days, because of the efficient crewing, than other airlines here.

Draw your own conclusions of why the agency has done what it has since the weekend. Having watched another fine airline decimated by conveniently timed groundings, I definitely have mine.

ndegepilot 4th Jul 2011 06:01

Apologies in advance as this should probably be in JB

Is there a sinister connection here?


Nov 2007, Chris Ward,
Initial MD for start-up, departed Jun 2008, to set-up Incheon Tiger Airways, Korea
Chris was a Captain with British Midland until the early '90s


Mar 2010, Crawford Rix,
In from BMI Baby UK, incumbent

Tony Davis CEO
Also ex bmi baby/BMI

I note that at the Senate enquiry Capt. Tim Berry was called into give evidence. Tim is also ex- British Midland, and a decent enough chap BTW.

Could this be the Brits. revenge for the Ozzies. sending British Midland James Hogan, and Gr3g Cart3r! ;)

Mr. Hat 4th Jul 2011 06:19

Plane talking latest
 
Ben Sandilands reports on Plane Talking:


Postscript: Crikey has received information that a Tiger flight between Perth and Melbourne on Wednesday afternoon suffered a navigational systems failure before re-establishing its location on ATC radar while approaching Adelaide airport. To the astonishment of other air crew, it didnt land at Adelaide but continued on to Melbourne.

The The 4th Jul 2011 06:22

Very hard to see how Tiger Australia can recover from this. Even if they do start flying again by next weekend, they will hemorrhage cash for the foreseeable future.

Too much negative publicity, too much uncertainty, very few will want to fly on them, no matter how cheap the fares are.

I think they will get back to flying as a face saving effort only, then exit the Australian domestic market gradually and quietly by the end of the year.

GAFA 4th Jul 2011 06:27

Okie,
Virgin Australia pilots get a min of 11 or 12 days(every 2nd month 12) per 28 day roster with most getting 12 - 15 per roster, thats efficient crewing.

Mr. Hat 4th Jul 2011 06:31

I disagree!
 

very few will want to fly on them
We have plenty of people in this country that will!

Worrals in the wilds 4th Jul 2011 06:46


Perhaps, perhaps what is actually happening is this. Other industries are now utilizing the aviation template - the tombstone imperative / safety first / learning culture that had previously existed. However, aviation is now actually regressing, while other industries are taking this template & improving on our lessons, learned in blood.

That's an interesting concept. I think that most members of the public assume (or did so until a couple of days ago :E) that all Aussie based airlines have to be safe because otherwise the Government would shut them down.

...and the general public will no longer tolerate a poor safety culture in their workplace or in aviation.
That I'm not so sure about. The average worker bitches and moans every time a safety initiative is brought in (and I'm as bad as everyone else). Look at the constant carrying-on throughout PPRuNe about hi viz vests. I don't think the push for safety has ever been driven by the public, because most people think they're invincible. I bet that there will be people buying tickets with Tiger if they start trading again. Maybe fewer than before, but there''ll still be some.

The relevant government departments should drive safety, that's what we pay them for via the tax system. They don't have to make money, they shouldn't have to be popular and that is their job. Fortunately CASA has figured that out.

I'm not game enough to ask him what his take home salary is.
AFAIK truckies do well, but not as well as airline captains. I went out with one for a while, I think he was taking home a shade under 90K for driving interstate HC with a good company? That's from memory.

Mr. Hat 4th Jul 2011 07:07

I agree with you Worrals.

He doesn't ask me what I get paid as I think he's concerned he'll embarrass me!

I get paid pretty well but I've been lucky. Having said that I work pretty hard to!

amos2 4th Jul 2011 08:08

...and don't kid yourselves that truckies have any standards at all! Safety or otherwise!

Mstr Caution 4th Jul 2011 09:50


ReverseFlight, AVV 18 ILS is a pretty simple approach as you say. It does have a local anomaly that can get you in trouble. In a strong NW wind, I think the Yoo Yangs block the wind below the summits. On final about the time configuring commences, the wind diminishes from a strong tailwind to a light one or even a westerly breeze. I know a lot of software experts will tell me I am wrong, but I only report what happens. With the strong tailwind going to a light or no tailwind, the plane interprets this as a headwind. The IAS increases and it is difficult to slow down to extend the flaps. I have required gear down out of sequence and speed brakes to get the speed below max Config Full extension speed. If you expect this, no problem. If not, it can get you into an unstable approach very easily. Don't know if this is what happened last week, but could be a possibility of why the missed approach was executed.
Call me old fashioned, but if one was to expect a significant reduction in the tailwind component during the course of an approach. Wouldn't it be prudent to be at gear down & landing flap configuration prior the the wind change.

B772 4th Jul 2011 10:06

Sunstar320. Heard today CASA were making life difficult for Shelley Roberts soon after she commenced with Tiger. It sounds as though Tiger have been under the watchful eye of CASA for some time.

B772 4th Jul 2011 10:51

I have just looked at WebTrak and it shows the overshoot to 3500 ft. I understood the crew were instructed to climb to 3000 ft.

It is interesting to see the ATSB website state the final investigation report for AO-2011-076 will be available within 12 months. Tony Davis of Tiger will be hoping CASA will make their determination a little quicker.

Mstr Caution 4th Jul 2011 11:07


It is interesting to see the ATSB website state the final investigation report for AO-2011-076 will be available within 12 months. Tony Davis of Tiger will be hoping CASA will make their determination a little quicker.
B772, thread drift I know!

But J* did a go around in May 2010 in Singapore & the ATSB still haven't published a final report. :oh:

Going Boeing 4th Jul 2011 11:12


here's a novel idea try an aussie to run a aussie airline.
As well as the CEO being an aussie, how about he/she having real airline experience, ie like John Borghetti did working his way up over many years thus gaining a real feel for airline operations! (unlike AJ's minimal experience).

PLovett 4th Jul 2011 12:28

Going Boeing, I don't know what you call minimal experience but he was involved in airlines long before coming to Australia.

Suggest looking at this.

Major Cleve Saville 4th Jul 2011 13:37

Hey guys you are right here in the U K we get constant memos, orders and instructions from our Managing Directors to descend below MSA especially if not under positive radar control, if not established on a published instrument approach to land, and especially if not visual. As a professional pilot I always comply with instructions from non-qualified managers of course!!

Are you telling me that only an Aussie MD can save us from flying like cretins? Please send us one straight away so I can be safe again!

Some non-Australians following this saga might be tempted to think the nation of ownership is an issue here, not that Australians could ever be seen in any way to be bigoted or xenophobic, neither are they ever dismissive towards 'Asians' in any shape or form.

I just hope the crews involved are not the usual Australian sky-gods the rest of the world is so in awe of, 'cos that fact might be a tad embarrasing!

G'day,

Cleve


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