The Killing of Col Pay
 

Col Pay's crash was no accident - he was set up long ago.
Col Pay died because he believed as passionately as I do in
the effectiveness of scooping water tankers in fighting
fires especially in quickly reaching and hitting spotfires in the early stages.
Col Pay died because of the decades of continued refusal by
all the downunder armchair experts, apathetic politicians, egotistical fire service bureaucrats and even some firies themselves to acknowledge the viability of fixed wing scooping tankers complementing helo and ground forces. Proven off the shelf technology which strangely works so well elsewhere around the world but which has been repeatedly rejected again and again downunder.
Notably by the likes of the then NSW Fire Commissioner Phil
Koperberg - recently stood down as Environment Minister over
domestic violence claims. He and others rejected out of hand
the well proven Canadair water bombers on offer many years
ago at bargain prices.
Every year the same old tired (and largely false) arguments
against why this equipment which works so well overseas is
not suited to Oz - no water,salt water,terrain,vegetation,
retardant toxicity, yada yada yada..... It has even been
suggested that the water would kill firies on the ground or
that the aircraft they would fan the flames on to them.
Or this from Pprune in 2001 - PK was interviewed by an
aviation magazine a number of years ago and asked about the
effectiveness of fixed wing aircraft for firefighting. His
response was quite negative including the comment that
"fixed wing aircraft carrying water would damage the trees".
And from the South Australia Environment, Resources and
Development Committee Canadair CL-415 Inquiry 1994
"The Committee was concerned however at the generally
negative reaction of these authorities to the various
proposals to acquire, to use, or even to test Canadair
aircraft for firefighting in Australia. It almost appeared
to the Committee that some opponents of the aircraft have
first decided that the Canadair is not suitable and then set
about constructing arguments to justify that decision.
This raises the suspicion that there has been no genuine
attempt to examine the benefits of the aircraft objectively."
Today dozens of these scooping air tankers and their crews
sit idle and silent on snowy airfields across North America
and Europe.
And so Col Pay died giving it the good old Aussie go of
trying to develop and test a local replacement for what all
these so called "experts" claimed was not relevant to
downunder conditions.
Responsibility for the death of Col Pay lays squarely at
the feet not only of the bureaucrats and politicians but
also the armchair experts who so willingly aided, abetted
and encouraged them.
Footnote -
I recall talking to the crew onboard the Canadair at Avalon some time in the 90s. IIRC the deal offered that year was no upfront $ commitment, that the company bore the cost of positioning the aircraft and crews into Australia. All the authorities needed to pay for was hours/fuel/crew when actually actively deployed fighting fires.
The Canadian guys simply were not able to comprehend the
crass stupidity of local authorities in refusing a deal like
that. Nor could I.
But they did say they wouldn't waste their time coming back
to Australia again. And sure enough - they didn't.
Vale Col Pay - a fair dinkum Aussie pilot and one who was
prepared to give it a bloody good go despite the naysayers.
Stuff it mate - you should have just let the country burn.:sad:

.......ned yr obviously very upset as we all are. But please remember even if yr written words are correct to some degree ( & i'm sure they probably are) the man Col Pay was his own man, 'he' decided what 'he' wanted to do, his way, the Col Pay way, that's the way he was. If he was alive today having survived such an event i believe he wouldn't say as much against the obstructioneers (if there's such a word !) as you mentioned i'm sure, but he was a 'doer' not a spitful man. Like I said yr probably right in most of what you say, yr obviously far more in tune as to the details of his efforts to improve safety in the face of objection than most of us.
I met him a few times over the years whilst chartering thru Scone etc. (loved his work as we all did) & he came across as a guy who got the job done even if in the face of adversary/stupidity.

Ned I'm sad for you, & all the others out there that feel cheated to some degree but Col wil never be forgotten for his outstanding efforts in everything aviation.

Ty for yr post Ned
Capt Wally

The damn shame is Wally, he's right! :{

he gave me the inspiration to just bloody well get on with it! I was young then but will never forget that meeting.

Whoa

First time I've logged on for a few days and hadn't been paying attention to the news, can't quite believe what I've just read.............................

....a sad loss to be sure, one of the pioneers of classic aviation in Australia who's name is known by us all who wanted to take to the skies.

My sincerest condolences and sympathies to his wife, family and colleagues at Scone.

LP

….. he was a generous, no BS bloke and a great pilot!
.
…. last saw him in NRM when he flew the Wright Flyer :ok:
.
RIP Mr Pay

One of the very few Aussie pilots I firmly and unreservedly respected.

RIP

Have been away training and can't believe what I've read. Like Launchpad I'm stunned and very saddened.

I met the man a few times and have a great photograph taken at Temora of Col and Max Hazelton chatting together; Priceless. What a gentleman of the skies. My sincere condolences.

Amos, age doesn't matter. Went flying in the sim only today with a 75 y.o. and he was as sharp as they come.

M1:{

I also had the honour of meeting Col some years ago. My sincerest condolences to the Pay family. Aviation, especially the way they did it, has cost them much heartache over the years. Our industry is less with his passing. Words fail me. RIP Col.

D

Truly we have lost one of the greats. All aviation is diminished by this sad loss. RIP.

RIP Captain Pay
 

Deepest sympathy to the family of Col Pay and staff of Pay's Air Services on the loss of a true gentleman.

Col brought pleasure to so many at airshows across the years, from early days at BK and Schofields in the 70's to recent times.

'National treasure', 'legend' - words which are flung around so freely these days, but words which truly describe this man.

God bless him - surely he is in Heaven now with some other old mates like Ted Harrison and Keith Rose (the Boss) and Black Jack Walker.

Thank you Col for those memories, and the sound of the Rolls Royce Merlin overhead.

KP

I would like to add my condolences to Col's family. Aussie aviation has truly lost a great contributor. I will still remember his opening of an airshow routine in the Mk.VIII spit with a loop from take off on Archerfields's 040 grass strip. He was a true ledgend. RIP

As good a bloke as he was pilot. My sympathies to his family.
Any news of funeral or memorial service plans?

Funeral Service - Capt. Colin Pay
 

Latest news is funeral at 11.00AM Thursday 13th, Scone and afterwards at the Scone RSL.

RIP Col.

Col Pays Funeral Details
Just got these emailed to me at work.
Rural Fire Services advise the following details of Cols Funeral
Please be advised that the funeral for Col Pay will most likely occur this Thursday. The details are as follows:
o Uniting Church, Scone
o 1100hrs (99.999% confirmed)
o The family are more than happy to have RFS personnel attend and feel it would be an honour if they wore uniform.

I had the great privilege to do some low level flying training with Col. Will never forget buzzing around valleys and ridges under his watchful and experienced guidance. Condolences to the family: RIP Col; you will always be an Icon of Australian aviation.

Seabreeze

I am not buying into any of the emotive stuff being written here, save to put forward what has been posted on the RFS internal web about the loss of a great person and role model to many (including myself).

Regards,

OpsN.

An Aussie aviation icon has passed away. His contribution to aviation enriched all our lives.

This thread is to acknowledge Col's contribution to Australian aviation.

The issues of how and why are correctly the prerogative of the ATSB. Col would not have done what he did if he did not think it was technically possible and feasible.

Arm chair opinions of the hows and whys are not welcome.

RIP old mate. Blue skies with a big Merlin! :ok:

Tail Wheel

Published in the editorial section of the Newcastle Herald on Monday December 10, 2007.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...76/Col_Pay.jpg

To a true flyer
 

Col,

My first solo nav, i landed scone..a young boy! with my lunch. You came up to me and asked what i was doing? "i'm on my first solo nav" i said.You took me to your toy shop and i ...........i found a mate....go the 185!!!

You showed what flying is about..........FUN...+ PASSION!

To all the Paye family my heart is with u...he is 'touching that hand of god'...and he will be fine..

Richard Waugh

Everyone else had said all that i wanted to. So i'll just say it was an absolute honour sharing the circuit with you at Temora a few weeks ago.

Australian aviation owes you plenty and is poorer for your passing.

I'm behind the times, But?
 

Bugger:
RIP Mr Pay.
H/Snort:{:{:{:{:{:{

From Temora Aviation Museum
 

Col Pay was a true gentleman. You don't survive to 75 years as an ag pilot if you are a cowboy. He will be sadly missed.

From: Temora Aviation Museum
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:56 PM
Subject: VALE COL PAY




Col Pay was born on 26 October 1932 and from an early age he developed an interest in flying and all things mechanical. He learned to fly at Narromine in western NSW using all he could afford from his wages to satisfy the passion that continued throughout his life. After gaining his licence he flew a variety of aircraft and later became an instructor at the Narromine Aero Club. His first aircraft was a De Havilland Tiger Moth and with this he established Pays Aerial Service which later became one of the largest and most successful aerial work companies in Australia.

Col was one of Australia’s pioneers of aerial topdressing, spraying and crop dusting and helped to develop many of the techniques now common practice in the industry. From his base in Scone, NSW the business expanded to include operations outside Australia and further diversified to include aerial fire fighting and aircraft sales.

Col’s passion for aviation led him into the realm of “warbird” operations before that term had even been coined. In partnership he owned an Australian built Mustang fighter that was kept at Narromine and later reluctantly sold to buy a washing machine. Today such a thought would not be contemplated, but in the 1950s and 1960s the warbird movement did not exist and few such aircraft were permitted to fly. Col again renewed his acquaintance with the Mustang when he purchased and restored the pillar box red VH-AUB at his Scone maintenance facility. With this aircraft repainted in its former RAAF markings Col became a regular performer at air shows throughout NSW.

Col expanded his interest in warbird aircraft with the purchase of a Spitfire Mk.VIII from the estate of the late Sid Marshall. This aircraft required a complete rebuild and many overseas commentators believed that the task could not be performed in this country. The aircraft’s first flight was the crowning achievement of the warbird movement in Australia up until that date, and its operation by Col between 1985 and 2000 brought this legend to thousands of enthusiasts and veterans alike. Col maintained his association with the Spitfire following its sale to the Temora Aviation Museum and flew it at Temora whenever the opportunity arose. Other wartime fighters and trainers became part of his collection including Australia’s first airworthy P-40 Kittyhawk which again emerged from his workshops as one of the best examples of its type anywhere in the world. At the time of the P-40’s first flight, Col’s collection boasted an example of each of the most significant fighter aircraft operated by the RAAF during the Second World War. Through Col’s efforts, Scone became a Mecca for aircraft enthusiasts and this was enhanced through the bi-annual “Warbirds over Scone” air shows that brought spectators from every state and overseas.

In addition to the aerial work operations, Col’s business expanded to include the acquisition and sale of a variety of ex-military aircraft. This greatly diversified the range of types flying in Australia and saved most from potential scrapping. With others he retrieved North American T-28s from Laos, Cessna O-1 Birdogs from Thailand and Vietnam and Cessna A-37 Dragonflys from Vietnam. Other types were also obtained from as far afield as Italy. It can truly be said that the nature and range of the Australian warbird movement as we see it today is due in no small part to the efforts of Col Pay.

Col was an astute businessman, hard bargainer and was both well liked and respected throughout the Australian aviation industry. He was a highly skilled and experienced pilot in a wide variety of aircraft types from the Wright Flyer replica to jets. He was a regular performer at Temora’s flying weekends bringing his Mustang or recently restored P-40, thrilling the crowds with his professional displays.

Col is survived by his wife Dianne, son Ross and daughters Jillian and Helen.

He shall be greatly missed by everyone at Temora and across the Australian aviation industry.


We have prepared a special tribute page on our website to remember Col Pay. Click on this link to view it. http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/news/ColPay_000.cfm






http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/

A huge day spent catching up with peers and basking in the limelight of a few legends.

Photos to follow.

Said it before and today it draws a tear - Col I owed you everything. Thank you.

:{

One of the greats of aviation.

ATSB preliminary report here.

I find it so sad to read that he never wore a helmet.

I am afraid there are a one or two ag pilots who would be alive today had they been wearing a helmet when they pranged, over the years.

One guy informed me years ago, on my enquiry as to why he was not wearing a helmet, was he didn't relish the thought of being trapped in a burning a/c by his legs and being conscious. Guess he had a point.

I read the report with interest.

As for the front of the ski on the ill fated a/c. I am no fluid mechanic but my first thought was the turned up bit of the toes of the skis should have been somewhat longer, to help guard against what did eventually happen, with tragic results.

R.I.P. Sir.

Really saddens me to think some one dies, possible, for lack of the one bit of kit I would have thought mandatory for that style of flying, testing something so unusual let alone day to day ag flying, and it apparently was a certification requirement of the aircraft (helmut to be worn). if I read the report correctly.

Still it seems as I have watched, marveled is a better word, Col at airshows most of my life and he never wore a helmut...just his characteristic DCs and white overalls...I always wondered about that.

I have looked at the Fire Boss version of that aircraft a few times and thought "What a SEXY bit of kit". It just looks SO GOOD with the floats. Did they cut down so much on useful load that it was worth the risk associated with these flights, or a good mans life?

Why wouldn't you just buy a pair of floats for each firebomber and store them, made up, in a shed...surely it would be less than a days work to change each aircraft over from wheels to floats when needed for the fire season?

This just doesn't seem in character.

http://www.airtractor.com/at-802f-fi...st-us-contract

Col at the time of his demise (may he always be remembered)obviously thought it not a major issue to wear protective head gear. He was his own man, & like the rest of us we are all ultimetly responsible for our own actions.
Nothing is forever, Col's memories, his legacies & never to foget his brilliant way of making ordinary folk not directly connected with aviation feel as tho there was time in Col's life for simply, you & me !


CW

Whilst some here are harping on about helmets, I not aware that the actual cause of death has been made public. An it's none of our business really.

It's possible that a helmet, or lack thereof, had no bearing on the final tragic result?

As an aside, a particular pilot in PNG took to wearing his helmet whilst flying the Twin Otter, much to the shock/horror of the passengers. Sad to say his helmet failed to save him during a subsequent accident.

Horses for Courses!

So what, he didn't wear a helmet.

This is flying-not cycling.

High G impact, lots of water, temporary unconciousness from shock, all that mud, any of these could kill you, no matter if you've got a helmet or a bloody scuba suit on.

Dale Earnhart Snr had a helmet on and still broke his neck- but that was ok, his head was saved.

Fact- Do something dangerous for long enough and eventually the danger will catch you, your fault or not.

The tragedy is that he is gone and the industry has lost a leader.

p.s

Just because CASA says so doesn't automatically make it correct.

After all, CASA issued Monarch and Seaview's AOC.

The CASA people making these rules mostly have less experience and common sense than the people doing it.

Whats that skip? I'm rambling???

Pretty poor analogy there Sonny

There was a bit of technology available, and I can't think of what it is called but it stops your head snapping forward...same way you die when hanged, that would have saved Earnhart's life but he point blank refused to wear it...now that piece of technology is mandatory in racing and it took Earnhart's death to make it so...classic tombstone thinking.

To not wear a helmut while conducting the kinds of flights Col was conducting is, to my mind, bizarre.

A helmut might not make the difference EVERY TIME, but it might have this time.

A great pilot and seriously nice guy...but not infallible.

The ATSB report stated (or under stated), from memory, that Col had 29,800 hours experience.

They obviously did not find all the Log Books!! :E :E

Col would find that amusing! :}

Col was an inovator
 

He was responsible for re-engining the Fletcher ag plane with the eight cylinder 400 HP Lycoming. I remember hiring a 400HP Fletcher from him for geophysical survey many years ago. It was to operate in the outback, and so was fitted with a DC3 fuel tank where the hopper usually goes, and pax seats and geophysical electronics behind that.
Up front it had radio and nav gear that no self respecting ag plane ever had.
There was a delay in getting some of the paperwork done, and I had things to do in Adelaide, so Col lent me a Cessna 180 to go to Adelaide. In those days we had to get endorsements on every aeroplane before we could fly it, so Col and I did some circuits. Not many circuits, as a C180 does not need a big long runway, so we did three touch and goes for every circuit. Very practical.
I remember Col as a hard working aviator/engineer/businessman who did lots of difficult things well.
I have enormous respect for this man.

Chimbu,

Its called a HANS device, and they weren't very popular with any drivers until they were made mandatory. Rumour has it Dale Earnhardt liked to wear his seatbelt loose as well..

OK, I concede that one.

I am no expert on ag type flying, so maybe i'm approaching this from the wrong angle, but my thoughts are these guys are who they are and achieve the things they achieve because they think for themselves, outside the box and for their own reasons.

A quality lacking in todays highly regulated aviation industry, where everything is based on what the lawyers and beancounters think.

I'm not saying we go back to the old days but we do need to respect it for what it was.

I too have admired the Fire Boss and would love to fly one - that sort of work would be extremely challenging and satisfying. Whilst I'm not an ag pilot I have spent the last two years flying floats - and with absolutely no disrepect intended I will comment on the accident.

The deepest part of an aircraft's floats are located behind the center of gravity of a float plane in a landing attitude. One reason for this is for directional stability whilst on the water. If you land a floatplane with the center of hydrodynamic resistance in front of the centerer of gravity and there is any sideways drift relative to the water the aircraft will yaw/slew extremely violently - this can be seen dramatically in the 1982 film "Mother Lode" (the accident was not scripted), and was also demonstrated a few years ago when a float plane collided with a yacht in Chance Bay in Queensland following a low nose landing where the pilot subsequently lost directional control.

Given the configuration shown in the ATSB report with the skis so far forward it would only require one leg to 'grab' and the result is not at all surprising. A slight turn, a light crosswind or even water conditions may have been enough to start the sequence. If this happens on floats you have a chance of staying upright - with small skis you would become a passenger along for an extremely violent ride.

W

PS Water scooping floats for firefighting are not new - they were a factory option on De Havilland Canada Beavers in the 1950's.

PPS Amphib floats are expensive. The Wipline 10000s as fitted to the Fire Boss are smaller version of the 13000's - a set of 13000 amphibs including fittings costs around $426k US. In Australia it would be extremely difficult to get a return on them.

RIP Col

That is the most bizarre thing I have read in a very long time.

Chimbu
 

Mate,

the link to firebossllc.com doesnt seem to be working.. but if you check out wipaire.com who make the stuff you will see the 8000 series for the C208 is in the mid 200K mark and the 13000 series for the twotter runs to mid 400K.. considering the 10000 series is a special cut down version of the twotter setup with the extra plumbing etc etc I strongly suspect 426K would be about right eh..

Oh I believe it, I just think it is incredible.

Little wonder Col was looking for an alternative...in fact it isn't bizarre it is obscene.