" When things aren't done properly the right thing to do would be to turn a blind eye and ignore the problem. Thats what made Qantas a great airline the absolute ignorance of the engineers over many years."
Gee Mahatmacoat you sound just like DC. I can't believe anyone would actually make a statement like that.:= |
i wonder what TT would do if they see a copy of the crash comic, and the slowly growing list of *38 series Boeing aircraft appearing with relatively major faults, this most recent edition has quite a few alarming report, eg Fuselage panels missing?
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The holes in the cheese are getting larger.
QF pilots be on your toes. Hope its not a mission impossible. Thanks Darth.:ugh: |
Gee Mahatmacoat you sound just like DC. I can't believe anyone would actually make a statement like that. |
Well done SP and the rest of Bexley on another fantastic story. We can only hope that the skies will become safe once again soon. :D:D
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SP... you legend. Members are finally getting their moneys worth! Not a bad effort for a sparky too ;-)
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Well there might be a few problems with maintenance. But that's black art stuff and difficult for the average accountant-trained director to come to grips with.
But the important thing is that Geoff is going to sort out the problems with amenities kits for the first class and business class passengers! |
A year ago a QF LAME SIT Line maintenance told me that management had provided for ( that's an accounting term that means........they are expecting and had planned for) the loss of an aircraft in the next 10 years.
I just wonder how all the maintenence tasks are going after all the highly experianced production planners on M189/1 were CR'd in 98 i think it was. Thats when I left QF. Engineers I talk to still bemoan the loss of the PACER and SUPERQIK sytems, replaced by the illigitimate lovechild called CAMSYS. How long will it be till the primary requirment for pilots is an accounting degree. |
Originally Posted by Nepotisim
It would be nice if they put an engineer as the head of engineering. What is his background anyway.
Originally Posted by qantas.com
David Cox
David spent his early career in research and teaching. He is an aeronautical engineer and has a Master of Science and Society degree (University of NSW). He joined Qantas in 1986 and has worked through a range of engineering, commercial, planning and operational roles including responsibility for regional airlines. David is currently Group General Manager Engineering Technical Operations and brings comprehensive technical expertise to his new role. Regards, LME-400 |
Yes he is a professional engineer who learnt his craft sitting in a lecture hall. Never got his hands dirty and most likely does not know which way to turn a spanner to undo a nut. He designed an awsume strategy map though and through that process taught us all how to build the bridge of trust and make the most of intelligent space. David I think its time for you to cross the final threshold.
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I think BD might have handled the questions a little better.
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some pose the question if singapore maint so bad why arent they falling from the sky ?
answer = because they dont keep their aircraft up until the phase 5 d chk also i would have thought a wake up call was due after the 32 inch crack was found that nearly lost the whole rear end of 744.who knows how many flights were left before the qf11 became a reef at the bottom of the pacific |
Some of these postings from people who I assume may be engineers leave one in no doubt as to one reason why aircraft may have been sent elsewhere. A couple of these characters cannot put one sentence together properly or run a simple spell check on their outbursts. (eg. chemical alli & apophis)
If their spelling and grammar are any indication of their workmanship then it makes one wonder what their standard of maintenance would be like. I agree with much that has been said here but you will do yourselves and your peers a favour if you at least appear a little more professional. Here is a tip – write your burst in a word document, run a spell check, ensure capitals and full stops are in place then copy and paste it onto the web site. |
F.B.Eye
I don't give a rats if the engineers can spell, when I strap the jet to my butt the last thing I care about is their spelling on PPRuNe. These guys have demonstrated over many, many years an engineering standard that is second to none, it is a huge contributor towards the reputation that Qantas still has, but for how long? Dixon and his cronies are willing to risk a hard won reputation chasing a short term buck without clearly understanding the long term implications. The engineering is not the only area where short term thinking pervails, it is everywhere. Simple solution: FOG |
spell this
I have neither the time,nor the patience for individuals , who,s only point scoring ability is to attack spelling and gramma on an open forum.if all you have to contribute to an issue that you probably have nothing to do with is the size of your scotts college degree,why dont you go and get well and truly
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aipa newsletter thingy said there was to be more on todays, today tonight about maintenance - did anyone see anything?
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Our enginerring WAS second to none.
our company was second to none. Our vision was second to none. This little uneducated git has spread his lecherous chip on the shoulder through every bit of the company... As someone else remarked his face is that of an elephant's scrotum.... FOG |
Which one had a 32" crack?:eek:
Was that the ex Maylaysian one with a dodgy lap joint repair, or another??:uhoh: SQ |
I will tell you how Fu*king important doing your checks properly is.
While doing crown inspections on one of the ugly sisters (OEB?)one of the engineers in syd heavy Tim peeled back an insulation blanket to discover he was seeing light shine thru from outside. What he had found was an 18" crack thru a butt spice joint that was caused by an engineer in Malaysian airlines using a metal scraper to remove sealent. For the uneducated what had happened is that it had scratched the splice strap underneath and caused a stress razor. With the fuse flexing under pressurisation and flight loads it developed into a full blown crack. Now this was at aprox BS2000 right a the top of the fuse so it would never have been seen on the ground. This crack if not detected when it was, would have in the very near future have caused total hull failure and you don't need to be a genius to figure out that it would have happened when the aircraft was pressurized ie in flight. One of the tasks that amazingly get done in record time in these MRO's are the crown inspections. Its an easy one to just sign off, you never find anything and its just one of those dusty, dirty jobs that never reveal anything anyhow. WELL NOT THIS TIME !!!!!! This is the exact reason why we must do inspections to the letter. If this particular check was done in singapore there would without a doubt have a been horrific result. Look what happened to JAL when the rear pressure bulkhead blew their hori stab off. This defect resulted in Mas getting into sooooo much trouble. It caused all the QF aircraft that had been thru mas to get inspected So what did qf management learn from this? F**king nothing. So, Where are you CASA? You really are a toothless tiger aren't you Only interested in collecting fees it would seem GO SP and TT And RIP SYD HEAVY |
Just to add weight to your post, I think a China Airlines B747 had the similar problem turn ugly between Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Tail strike in 1980, not repaired properly and 22 years later it let go! 225 people died......Anyone remember?:uhoh: Anybody at the big Q remember? And thinking to themselves, gee much less chance of that here, we maintain to a higher standard than that?:cool: An intelligent person learns not just from their own mistakes but those of others as well.:ugh: SQ:uhoh: |
QF , the new Garuda
Mate, talk to the ex heavy guys or the base maint boys who
have to deal with the crap that comes back from overseas, but most of all talk to the techies 'cause they are the ones who see how the reliability of the aircraft they fly every day has dropped. You can deal with an IFSD but structual failure is another thing all together. But its all good isn't it , its now all about putting bonus money in Geoff , Dave and Murray's pockets ! I just hope that Tulla heavy stays 'cause they do a fantastic job on those 737's. |
While doing crown inspections on one of the ugly sisters (OEB?)one of the engineers in syd heavy Tim peeled back an insulation blanket to discover he was seeing light shine thru from outside. |
I liked Tim he is a top bloke,very dedicated operator, who ever has him now has a good bloke, Qantas loss
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Heavy Maintenance
It is a common statement made by the layperson that if these MROs' are so dodgy, then why aren't aeroplanes falling out of the sky?
Well the simple answer is that any short cut taken, or deviation from accepted industry practice, or task simply not carried out, or defect missed etc... is like a time bomb buried deep. When and how it goes off, anyones guess. These checks are years appart. This is not a problem for Singapore Airlines, in particular, because they get rid of their aircraft after about 5 years (D checks 5-6 years apart). Couple this with a world wide shortage of capacity for wide body 3rd party work (yes David Cox and John Vincent closed down the premier heavy line and workshop support, in an environment where no 3rd party MRO had space) so "rushing them through" is paramount. Qantas were lucky they jagged a few slots in Singapore. MAS has 10 lines full, "come back in about 10 years" if you need a check done. But at the end of the day, the law was broken. Someone is surely culpable. These were not maintenance errors, mistakes, these people deliberately acted in the way they did. They knew what they were doing was wrong. If Cox cannot see this, he must go. |
I'm not an engineer, but I have several questions in relation to organisational oversight:
1. How much sway does CASA have over foreign maintenance organisations and their standards? 2. Obviously if required, CASA can tell QF that their maintenance standards are not up to scratch and they need to improve, but at what hyperthetical point do CASA get the balls to do this and risk the political fallout? Is there such a thing as three strikes...you're out? 3. It used to be a case where the DCA relied heavily on "an ear to the ground" for regulation enforcement. These days, it seems all they want to see is that the correct procedures are written in an Ops Manual. What evidence do they require to indicate that procedures are not being followed? 4. Finally, which individual has the courage to be the "whistle-blower" in Qantas when the unions are torn to shreds? Someone mentioned in an earlier post, "However, you can bet your life that if a serious accident does occur, it will be a pilot or an engineer left holding the can, not MJ,GD or DC." Sounds like my experiences in GA! |
I dont understand how any company, especially QF, can allow the deskilling of its workforce. Aircraft heavy maintenance is a particular learned skill through training and experience. In 10 years time there will be no one left in QF who possess these skills and all the tooling etc, will be gone. I bet my left you-know-what that the 'low prices' wont be around then and you have no option but to accept what the offshore MRO decides that you have to pay, and it wont be cheap. But current management dont care about that, they have boosted their bonuses through cost cutting and are living the good life. Its the next CEO or whoever that will have to justify it all. Perhaps CEO/Managers should be held accountable down the track for something that they did 10 years ago if something happens.
Slightly off track, but who does the maintenance on the RAAF VIP fleet? |
Slightly off track, but who does the maintenance on the RAAF VIP fleet? |
No Idea,
I suspect you may already know the answer to you question. The BBJ's are maintained by Qantas, with the heavy maintenance performed at the Tulla 737 base. Apparently, substandard maintenance is O.K. for the general public but, only the highest standards will do for Johnny. |
To get back to the thread guys, just wondered who will take the rap when there is a crash. The most immediate thing that sprung to mind was the Lockhart River fatality and that facility was audited by CASA prior to that dreadful event. Seems the lunches were nice and long at Changai Airport. When is the body responsible for the safety of the travelling public wake up and start acting like one. If it was good enough for Ansett then it's good enough for the white rat.:confused:
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The facts as such are that the Singapore maintenance facility used staples in a procedure that QF admitted was incorrect.
This leads to 2 questions. 1...Did the facility know that they were not supposed to use this technique? or 2...Did the facility know that this method was incorrect but used it anyway? Either way would anyone after seeing this have them service your car let alone a commercial aircraft. You would have to assume that if there was one instance then there will be others. If you found a car dealership had used a dodgy repair method would you go back to them? |
1...Did the facility know that they were not supposed to use this technique? 2...Did the facility know that this method was incorrect but used it anyway? |
Pure genius
If only I had known I could fix emergency track lighting with a stapler !! pure genius. :ok: If that defect occurs it quite often means emptying the adjacent zone of pax. That means off loading 50 plus people Perhaps tech services can get this repair put in the manual as a temp wiring repair for future drama as it looks like the staples were fitted for almost 12 months. SIAEC is ahead of its time and we should not be criticizing but embracing them or I should be writing PR for D Cox :yuk: |
Techincal error can anyone paste that letter from Cox to all staff in here?
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Bolty, can you confirm that the emergency track lighting system on Qantas airplanes is photoluminiscent and does not require electrical power for it's function or charging; in which case the staples were not inserted as an electrical means of circuit continuity but rather to secure the luminiscent strips, which alters the equation somewhat.:confused:
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Message to Staff
David Cox, Executive General Manager Qantas Engineering Recently there have been some media reports concerning Qantas Engineering’s heavy maintenance activities. These stories focus on a small number of audit reports, and a small number of issues, relating to work carried out for Qantas by Singapore Airlines Engineering Company (SIAEC) in Singapore and Lufthansa Technik in the Philippines. The key issues were identified some time ago and were thoroughly investigated at that time. However, to anyone not experienced in the field of aircraft maintenance, the story may have caused needless concern regarding safety at Qantas First and foremost, I can assure you that Qantas remains 100 per cent committed to the highest safety standards.For Qantas Engineering, safety always has been, and always will be, at the core of everything we do. These are the facts the vast majority – about 90 per cent - of our aircraft heavy maintenance is undertaken in Australia the remainder which is generally overflow work, work on aircraft types where the volume is low, including new aircraft types such as the A330, is done overseas. This is nothing new and has been the case for decades; our overseas providers are in the top tier of the industry and are certified by Qantas and CASA; their employees are specially trained to meet Qantas’ own requirements; Qantas Engineering always has a team of its own people on site to oversee and ensure work undertaken offshore is of an acceptable quality; and Qantas Engineering undertakes nearly 200 audits each year. Any issue identified – be it with a Qantas Australian facility or an offshore provider – is dealt with immediately and rigorously. The providers used by Qantas maintain aircraft for some of the most respected airlines in the world, including Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa, Cathay Pacific and Japan Airlines. No rational person who understands the aircraft industry could seriously suggest that they too are not committed to safety.Qantas Engineering applies identical stringent standards to all of its suppliers in Australia and overseas. If we identify a quality issue at any supplier, we address it immediately. For this process to work, every staff member should report issues as soon as they arise. To withhold information and then release it to the media is a totally unacceptable breach of our safety system. Our people here in Australia undertake the vast majority of our maintenance work and they do a fantastic job day in and day out, particularly in the context of the necessary changes we are making to the Qantas Engineering business to make it sustainable. It is deeply regrettable that such good work is undermined by industrially motivated media activity. We are trying to build an efficient and competitive business in Australia that will ensure work stays in this country. To do this, we need the flexibility to be able to occasionally send work overseas to reputable providers. To run stories of this nature quite simply works against this goal and prejudices our commitment to safety. David Cox Executive General Manager Qantas Engineering :D:D:D Thank you for saving the airline David. No wonder we pay you 1.3 M per year.:D:D:D :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk: |
Just a thought. Why doesnt the alaea write to SIAEC themselves as a please explain.
oh......and FOG and FOC |
Hot Dog
The Emergency Lighting system under scrutiny is NOT photoluminescent. The Emergency Egress Lighting (EEL) system is Electro luminscent and powered by 115VAC from inverters which are themselves powered by the Emeregency battery packs. |
Hotdog,
no the lighting isn't photoluminiscent. The staples were definitely used to join the broken strip AND complete an electrical circuit. |
Hotdog. Those staples were going straight through the conductors of the 115V feeder cables for the floor path lighting. They run from the sidewall to the E.E.L track and sometimes accross the isles and get severed by catering trollies and those sort of things. Normally the only way to repair it is to rip the carpet up and replace the whole feeder (anywhere from 3ft to 9ft).
Sorry if you were being sarcastic, but the answer to your question is that no, those staples are there for electrical continuity, not fastening it to the track. |
HOTDOG
From memory. The "eel" emergency light (electro luminescence) on a 744 is powered by trickle charged DC battery pack which is inverted up to 115V 400 htz AC. This power is supplied to the track which is made of some special fart gas mixed with plastic in ribbon form that when hit with AC it glows. In each strip 4 or 5 very thin copper conductors run to power the strip which when cut prevents the "eel" light from working. Cutting quite often happens when carpet guys hit the thin wires with their carpet knives. These wire are so thin I would never have thought a staple would work unless it was touching a copper wire to make the circuit. But as we have found out the luminescence material is conductive enough to make the system work when a split/cut is jumpered with a staple. Genius misguided but genius The photo photoluminiscent system you mention similar to the tritium painted green dots on your watch face is not fitted to any QF long haul aircraft. To alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems |
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