Why is it so?
 

Having just retired from many years of airline flying (12 airlines to be exact) I have a question to throw at you all.

Why are so many ex-Ansett people so difficult to get on with? Why do they always have to do things "the Ansett way" If I had a dollar for every time I have heard them say "this is the way we used to do it at Ansett" I could have retired in even better shape.

In several airlines I have been involved with they have come in and just taken over holus bolus and changed everything to way it was done at Ansett. People skills went out the window, checks became horrendous, training was pushed back into the dark ages and everybody started walking about with long faces when before they had been smiling.

Now I could understand this if Ansett had the been the "Shining Light" of airline practice. I could also understand if it were just a few people or a few airlines were as I describe but it is around 80%, I would estimate.

But there are some wonderful people from the latter background who I have worked with. Really outstanding pilots and people; they think it was all in the way Ansett recruited and trained.

What do you think? (I am now going to return to my bunker and put my flak jacket and tin helmet on)

Pirate

I've had the opposite experience.

All of the ex Ansett drivers I've flown with, post Sept 2001, have been easy to get along with and impressed me how quickly and professionally they adapted to a different operators procedures, whilst flying a type they had many, many hours on.

Only one caused me angst.

An SMS in early in the morning from a male pilot, "I think I love you", caused me to sit bolt upright and wonder! :eek: When I discovered that he was in a heightened state of awareness at the time of sending, I became less worried. More similar messages when he was in similar states of awareness taught me to turn the phone off overnight.

I believe he's terrorising people around Honkers now. :E

It happens on the ground too... not necessary with Ansett staff. Had a staff member, who wouldn't conform to company rules, say to me that if it wasn't done the Lufthansa way it wasn't correct and she would rather resign than do it our way.

I immediately gave her a pen and some paper!

Claret, you've obviously got the good ones and I have had the bad ones. Luck of the draw I suppose. But I have never had SMSs like yours (From another male that is ;)

...... but wait there was that night in Casablanca; naah, that was whispered in my ear not by SMS!

"Fly the Skull and Crossbones"

Clarry the ex AN drivers you fly with, and I flew with for a while at the same airline, were pre dispute.

I think there is a great difference between those individuals and those who were flung on to the market a few years ago.

Overall my experience is similar to pirate's...and so is the experience of all my mates scattered around the expat world. There will always be exceptions but the typical ex AN pilots have a great deal of difficulty adapting and leaving behind AN...in fact they seem to point blank refuse to.

I have flown with those too.

Or perhaps we just notice them more. Certainly those that cannot adapt, and there are LOTS, give Aussies collectively a bad rap overseas. Whether ex AN people want to admit it or not there IS a perception around the world of the typical ex Ansett pilot...and it is not a good perception.

After retiring, you consider 12 years as "many years of airline flying".........:uhoh:

If you retired as a Capt, then the SOP of the various airlines you flew for would have been enforced by you as Capt. Therefore, whatever the F/Os said about how he did things in Ansett would become irrelevant.

I can see the Woomera (who I suspect is a Jetstar pilot) getting out the guns once this thread takes hold!!:sad:



No Woomera to my knowledge has any association with JetStar - except perhaps as a passenger! Not necessarily getting out the big gun. You should really read the thread before bursting forth into print.
Sunny Woomera

I think the pirate said many years and 12 airlines, but I could be wrong...

CC,
That bloke must be one sick puppy to love you! :ok:

UNOME,
I respectfully suggest you re-read the opening post.
Thepirate said nothing about 12 years experience, but, experience with 12 airlines.:ok:
Maybe that may cause you to reflect upon the statements made on your post, and then maybe you might like to edit it.:rolleyes:
Regards,
BSB :}

G'day Chuckles,
In my post above I was referring specifically to the Ansett drivers who lost their jobs when Ansett collapsed in '01. I can only speak from my experience, to a man, not one of them has carried on with "this is how we did it in Ansett". Perhaps as The Pirate says, I'm lucky.

As for the pre/post disputers. I don't try and keep up with who's who, except for one who trained me years ago on the Smurf Jet, who often left the flight deck to "give birth to an Ansett pilot". :E :}

UNOME
He didn't say 12 years. He said 12 airlines.
And, can I have a bet with you about Woomera being a jet* pilot? :oh:

All I can say is .....long live Ansett :D

dammmmm....it sounds like I'm living in the past......

it sounds like I'm living in the past ....... oh I am...... :=

Bloggs, you should have heard what he says about you! Both being ex AN an all. :oh:

Hmmmm Pirate...... 12 airlines....sounds like u had trouble holding down a job !! Had you done it the way we did at Ansett, you may have had more luck !!
Ok b4 you all start on me ......
I'm JOKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:E

Gee, theres no agenda here is there.

There has always been and always will be an anti xxx airlines feeling from pilots of an existing airline when pilots turn up en masse from another airline with experience, such as those from Ansett.

Tell me Pirate, which airlines were you flying with when you felt threatened by ex ansett pilots?

Care to name them.

Good Point Chuckles; I believe there are many more of this type pre acre post the Ansett fall than before it (ie dispute related)

Unome: you say "enforced by you as Capt. " that is my point exactly. Where I come from you dont ENFORCE, you gentle coax and try a outflanking maneauver which will inevitibly get results while ENFORCING will not work in most cases.

In Ansett they talked about the Capt and his "dog" (F/O), there was a steep cockpit gradient, and the capt took over if anything went wrong. In my part of the world the F/O is ALWAYS a trainee capt and treated as such. Works much better believe me. And when the change of seat comes along it's soooooo much easier. But the myth of ENFORCING is still alive and well and perpetuated by the ex Ansett people. Not only in the air BTW but amongst ground staff as well.

Are there any engineers out there with anything to say on how they were dealt with by Ansett (and ex-Ansett) Crews?

But we are getting away from the subject on which I posted "WHY" are they like this. Why hasnt time taught them the error of their ways?

ANcaptain: glad to see there is at least one of you out there with a sense of humour:)

AnQrRa : I NEVER felt threatened! That is exactly the type of response I would expect from the people I am talking about. I just found them very difficult to train and when it was thier turn to train they always harked back to the "Old Days at Ansett" and despite much coaxing and outflanking continued to do so. One almost had to ENFORCE the rules.:)

WHY?

And no I am not going to name the airlines as I dont want individuals envolved. (See what a good boy I am Woomera?) It would be too easy to spot them. Sorry. But the they were in the Far and Middle Easts and in Europe as well.

Capt Jack Sparrow

Bloggs et al; Methinks Capt Jack Sparrow did wield a quick edit with his surly quill......aaarrrgg me hearties!:}

If not, I stand most humbly corrected and walk ye plank.:ok:

Capt Claret; If "one" of the Woomerii is not a Jetstar pilot then may "Davey Jones' locker be me end!!"

AAArrrgggg.........:E

Capt Jack (aka The Pirate) If your F/Os or trainees were not following SOPs, it then becomes a safety issue and the time for gently coaxing has passed. An enforcement by me would generally contain the following suggestion; "The company you now work for pays you to do your job this way, please do so or take it up with the Chief Pilot. Now whose shout is it?? " :)

BTW I think I've heard more complaints about ex-B1900 pilots (in a newish airline) believing they should be A330 Checkies, than poor old AN drivers. :ok:

Ye betterrr start walkin' Unome......... or come out and say what you mean 'cause I have no idea what you'r talking about:bored:

Capt Jack Sparrow

Unome, that is not what I thought you meant when you said enforcement. The way you just mentioned is not a bad way. But maybe a discussion should ensue as to WHY he/she IS doing it their way and not the company's so you all better understand the reasons. That way we can all learn.

And just to make it quite clear there were very few breaches of SOPS when I was in training mode. Even then they were most likely to be mine:\

Just had a thought:- have I pinched someone's name signing myself after Capt Jack? Please let me know if I have and I shall cease and desist.