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-   -   SMH article re RAAF buying c-17s (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/212029-smh-article-re-raaf-buying-c-17s.html)

Aussie 24th Feb 2006 21:27

Taildregger67,

38 SQN doesnt need to be re-formed... it already exists.

Caribou, based in Amberley with a detachment in Townsville.

Aussie

ruprecht 24th Feb 2006 23:40

PAF,

Ahh yes, good old Kwaj.

Karaoke and line dancing at the Yuk-yuk club with that never-ending popcorn machine; beers at the Caribou Lounge with all those ex-CIA types. The fun never ends. I remember them closing tower services exactly on the hour once, the fact that we were on 3 mile finals didn't seem to matter! At least the P-3 could get there from EDN, that new-fangled J model had to go through TVL when we deployed to Fincastle '02.

ruprecht.

Captain Sand Dune 25th Feb 2006 00:41

Would also love to see the F111 continue to live on forever. Fact is is just won't happen unfortunately:sad:
The F111 already takes a sizeable portion of the defence budget just to keep it running.

Gnadenburg 25th Feb 2006 01:24


Originally Posted by Point0Five
An individual's opinion on the generic structure of Qantas, is these days, almost a political view. So it's not a matter of qualification of comment, but whether you believe, in this case, that pilot remuneration is an imperative component of Qantas's makeup, or just an expeditionary platform to reinforce self-serving operations from a long gone reality.


Touche!

But.........

Frozo's virginity with the civilian world needs constant guidance. His cop out rebuttle, where he questions the ethics of industrial strikes, was neither accurate ( as no one suggested this option ) and naively ignorant.

Qantas pilots are a carefully, choreographed, chosen few. Psychometric & personality testing ( which most people fail as evidenced by bitterness on these pages ) lean toward an odd character; where despite passionate loyalty never being reciprocated, their almost "deontological" morality has a strike option erased from the industrial quiver.



Frozo

How does a deontologist ( ? ) march to war on a Bush bandwagon?

Gnadenburg 25th Feb 2006 01:27


Originally Posted by Captain Sand Dune
Would also love to see the F111 continue to live on forever. Fact is is just won't happen unfortunately:sad:
The F111 already takes a sizeable portion of the defence budget just to keep it running.

Wonder if Boeing would do a deal on a small F15/C17 purchase?

Pass-A-Frozo 25th Feb 2006 04:33

I'm trying ignore your misguided comments Gnad to prevent thread hijacking. Start a new thread and I'll explain all. By the way Gnad, I have worked in the civilian world (and no, before you make another assumption, not McDonalds during high school) - A lot of people on this site have made a lot of inaccurate assumptions about me simply because they don't like my opinion. You know everyone in the military didn't walk out of school straight into the recruiting office.

Strike out of the question?? I guess that would explain the flood of people posting "No, don't do it" on the townsville pilot industrial action thread??

A deontologist goes to war because he thinks it is the right thing to do. I thought the definition of the word would explain that.

Finacastle 02. That was Scotland?? I did the redeploy :)

As for air to air refuelling, The J model has all the plumbing etc for air to air refueling. They just didn't get the probe. Don't know why. I guess since they haven't even got externals on the beasts, I'm dreaming about them installing the probe.

scran 26th Feb 2006 21:04

Taildragger - if your read one of my earlier posts - I answered that question about the RAF.

They started with 4 leased, and are now buying them outright, plus two more (I understand it's been reported open-source).

And Yes, a Chinook will fit. You have to remove the forward and aft rotors, hubs, gearboxes and any pylons, and store the blades and fwd pylon/gearbox inside the helo. Also still have room for a Landrover 110, the 15T crane to re-assemble the Helo, and 43 personnel.

I have a copy of the Boeing booklets on US Military Loads and Pacific Nations Military Loads Cargo Compartment Versatility books if anyone wants to have a look..........:E :E :E

Going Boeing 26th Feb 2006 23:22

Gnads

A well placed source told me two years ago that Boeing had put an offer to the Oz Gov't for leased F15E's to be operated as an interim measure until the JSF enters operational service. I believe that the offer was rejected as it is cheaper to fit the F-18s and AP3C's with standoff weapons to supposedly do the required missions in the interim.

Gnadenburg 27th Feb 2006 04:59


Originally Posted by Going Boeing
Gnads
A well placed source told me two years ago that Boeing had put an offer to the Oz Gov't for leased F15E's to be operated as an interim measure until the JSF enters operational service. I believe that the offer was rejected as it is cheaper to fit the F-18s and AP3C's with standoff weapons to supposedly do the required missions in the interim.


Would be interested in the relative costing of a Boeing commercially guaranteed, leased flightline of F15E's versus operationally capable F111's.

If our 500 million a year F111 budget, only delivers under a dozen war capable aircraft and reducing, a small number of F15's could affordably replace that capability and reduce expectations of the F18 fleet.

Would the structure of a RAAF equipped with F15/F18's be the lowest risk option until a replacement available?

bob55 27th Feb 2006 08:15

1 & 6 SQN will become F18 squadrons when the F111 is retired, until the JSF arrives. 1 SQN will be at Williamtown and 6SQN will be at Tindal.

We are getting 4x C17s and they will be going to Amberley (via Richmond for a few years).

Pass-A-Frozo 27th Feb 2006 08:19

You know if they plan on keeping any H's at this stage? Will they keep all H's at 36 and form a new SQN for the 17's?

bob55 27th Feb 2006 08:21

C-17s are not replacing C130 capability - they are replacing contracted aircraft capability (like the Air Luxor A330).

If anything the C130H will be replaced by the C130J. But there's no hurry. I believe they are upgrading the C130H with new avionics.

Pass-A-Frozo 27th Feb 2006 08:24

I thought they finished that a little while ago. More J's would be good though. A shame they let the option for 24? more expire.

bob55 27th Feb 2006 08:31


Originally Posted by Pass-A-Frozo
I thought they finished that a little while ago. More J's would be good though. A shame they let the option for 24? more expire.

Yeah actually they have. Considering all the money they are spending on new aircraft (JSF, Wedgetail, A330 and now C17) I guess they have to draw the line somewhere.

Taildragger67 27th Feb 2006 13:26

Aussie,

Thanks - I stand corrected ("No, you were wrong!"). Did I mean 35? I've been out of the country for a while but I seem to recall there was a rejig in ALG a few years back and I thought one of the sqns - 35 or 38 - got folded.

Anyway Scran, thanks - sorry I missed that in your post. I knew the RAF had converted to purchase but wasn't aware of the extra two they'd gone for. I also checked the Boeing website and agree that a C17 could swallow a Chook. Surprising; they just don't look that big in photos but they're bigger than a Starlifter.

Good luck Bs & Gs - with all those new types coming in, looks like you've got lots of new toys to play with!! The Pt Cook museum had better start making some room for new exhibits...

Gnadenburg 1st Mar 2006 03:12


Originally Posted by bob55
1 & 6 SQN will become F18 squadrons when the F111 is retired, until the JSF arrives. 1 SQN will be at Williamtown and 6SQN will be at Tindal.

We are getting 4x C17s and they will be going to Amberley (via Richmond for a few years).


So the RAAF will have 5 fighter squadrons with around 40 operational Hornets after F111 retires? Is that a lot of unneccessary bureaucracy or just keeping an unrealistic structure in place for 100 JSF's?

Anyone know why the government abandoned cruise missiles for the Orions yesterday? Political, technical or naval rivalry? On paper, seemed a great capability to have in terms of the aircraft's range and in context of a war on terror.

bob55 1st Mar 2006 12:33


Originally Posted by Gnadenburg
So the RAAF will have 5 fighter squadrons with around 40 operational Hornets after F111 retires? Is that a lot of unneccessary bureaucracy or just keeping an unrealistic structure in place for 100 JSF's?

Anyone know why the government abandoned cruise missiles for the Orions yesterday? Political, technical or naval rivalry? On paper, seemed a great capability to have in terms of the aircraft's range and in context of a war on terror.

Who says we will only have 40 operational units? F18s are about as common as 737s these days, we can easily 'borrow' a few to tie us over.

You might find they will disband 77 squadron.

And no, they are keeping 1 and 6 SQN operational to maintain a capability. We will have the A330s by then, so the F18 will be able to perform the same role. They could keep the squadrons for a few years without aircraft if they wanted to.

kmagyoyo 1st Mar 2006 18:48

Pigs
 
1 Sqn is the oldest RAAF unit and can't be disbanded for traditions sake, hence the reason it turns into a Hornet unit. Just before I left the talk was of 1 and 6 merging when the G model retires, thus pooling all the maint effort into keeping the C's flying...therefore I don't think 6 Sqn will exist as a seperate entitiy until the JSF arrives.

Bad time to be a Nav...you want fries with that? :(

Point0Five 1st Mar 2006 19:03


Who says we will only have 40 operational units? F18s are about as common as 737s these days, we can easily 'borrow' a few to tie us over.
That's right, and all F/A-18s around the world share the same configuration and capabilities regardless of upgrades and model :hmm:

Point0Five 1st Mar 2006 19:05


1 Sqn is the oldest RAAF unit and can't be disbanded for traditions sake
Worked for Point Cook.......


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