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-   -   AUSOTS - Whats the view from the cockpit? (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/184241-ausots-whats-view-cockpit.html)

Uncommon Sense 1st Aug 2005 11:41

AUSOTS - Whats the view from the cockpit?
 
At 0200 this morning watching the daisy train of 30-40 aircraft in trail across the NW I was wondering what the view from the cockpit was of AUSOTS - especially when you all arrive at your East Coast destination together?

From what I hear it has had some 'interesting' effects on airspace management (predicting workload and resources). What kind of savings appear to be gained from the flight side of things?

(BTW - That technology is way beyond my simple skillset !)

OzExpat 1st Aug 2005 13:18

Having been away from Oz for a considerable period of years, can someone enlighten me on AUSOTS? :confused:

Feather #3 1st Aug 2005 22:09

Flex tracking to/from Asian gate/s. Optimises wind effect enroute. Works fine.

G'day ;)

Calligula 2nd Aug 2005 01:44

Actually Sandy it does not work fine as the 'trackmaster' on the last three occasions we have flown the flex track has put all a/c coming down from Sin on the same flex track.

We were held at FL 290 for the entire Aust FIR.

Night Watch 2nd Aug 2005 03:35

Was just thinking the other day how good the view was over Oz in the morning. It's really important to appreciate the lack of pollution in the great southern land. Can rarely see much of anything in China, the pollution is so bad.

On a side note..... in this day and age of very accurate long range navigation, it never stops amazing me when you are in the middle of nowhere (the polar tracks even) and another aircraft passes 1000' above or below. Everyone is on the same track to take advantage of the winds and in RVSM airspace it is impressive to see.

Had a 744 pass underneath me the other day, and after 8 hours of flying (albeit with GPS as primary) the 2 aircraft tracks were so similar the my Rad Alt came up and showed him at 1000' below. It doesn't have the widest beam with, so that pretty accurate. In fact the landing checklist briefly came up on the ECAM, as it works of Rad Alt.

OzExpat 2nd Aug 2005 06:14


In fact the landing checklist briefly came up on the ECAM, as it works of Rad Alt.
Hmmm... seems like something that the RVSM developers didn't take into account! :}

Night Watch 2nd Aug 2005 06:59

OzExpat

No big deal really.... it's only for a few seconds as the aircraft passes beneath, then it goes away. More an Airbus thing then anything else..... i'm sure it would be an easy fix with a software upgrade.

tipsy 2nd Aug 2005 07:53

This sort of radalt thing has been "folklore" over the Atlantic for years. I first recall it being talked about in relation to tracking with the first generation of INS in the early 70's.

Never seen it myself, but lots of people swear it happened to them.:eek:

tipsy
:yuk: :yuk:furball :yuk: :yuk:
Don't lie, steal or cheat, the Government hates competition.:ok:

Uncommon Sense 2nd Aug 2005 09:07

Back to the AUSOTS (flex track if you prefer), yes - I was wondering about the level issues - everybody squeezed down the same route jostling for levels where only procedural standards (generally) apply.

So does the time saved by favourable winds, make up for the hold downs?

410 2nd Aug 2005 09:25

Night Watch says:

On a side note..... in this day and age of very accurate long range navigation, it never stops amazing me when you are in the middle of nowhere (the polar tracks even) and another aircraft passes 1000' above or below. Everyone is on the same track to take advantage of the winds and in RVSM airspace it is impressive to see.
Night Watch, take a look at this and this link from the very early days of Pprune.

This subject was one of Pprune’s very early ‘crusades’, and I believe it played a small part in the recent introduction of ‘SLOPS’ (Strategic Lateral Offset Procedures) in Africa and most southern Asian countries.

Myself, I fly offset in the cruise everywhere where I’m not specifically forbidden to do so, (like RNP5 airspace), and I wish to God more people would do the same thing. However, even when flying in an area where SLOPS is permitted, it’s rare to see the aircraft on the reciprocal track NOT firmly on the centre of the airway.

It would seem that the vast majority of airline pilots are trusting of technology to an extreme degree or lack imagination as to what the result of one mistake would be.

The problem has become even more apparent since we’ve introduced RVSM, particularly where you’re transitioning from RVSM to non-RVSM airspace.

Night Watch 2nd Aug 2005 11:59

410

Thanks for pointing out those links.....

You are absolutly right that technology often breeds complacency.

itchybum 3rd Aug 2005 00:06

Had the RAD ALT thing happen plenty of times but usually when overtaking an aircraft so the closing speed is low. Can't remember if I've seen it during a "merge".

Also occasionally heard the engines of the other aircraft but only in RVSM airspace so the diff is only 1000ft and only if the track is roughly parallel to the wind.

itchybum 3rd Aug 2005 00:06

Had the RAD ALT thing happen plenty of times but usually when overtaking an aircraft so the closing speed is low. Can't remember if I've seen it during a "merge".

Also occasionally heard the engines of the other aircraft but only in RVSM airspace so the diff is only 1000ft and only if the track is roughly parallel to the wind.

CaptainMidnight 3rd Aug 2005 07:57

Information on AUSOTS can be found here, particularly in the information panels on the left.

In a nutshell, you fly a track that varies daily to take advantage of the wind profile, instead of using a fixed air route.


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