It’s Dick's Secretary, Jane, here. Dick has asked me to advise that at the present time he’s climbing in Switzerland and can’t get access to the internet. He does actually have other interests! When he’s in contact again, he will comment on this thread.

Dick points out that he asked ATC whether an IFR clearance would be available and was told it would be. It appears that even though it was severe clear day only by filing IFR and paying the enroute charges would he be accepted.

Who has lifelines number!
 

Seriously, I will give him 40 cents for the call.

Capt: Folks we are now being vectored around Lord Biscuit as he and his royal family make an approach to one of the 400 runways around he. Interesting to note folks, that he is in a single engine glider and that we must give way up here. Relax we will be landing in 5 hours.

PUT IN A BLOODY FLIGHT PLAN AND READ YOUR AIP, ERSA and NOTAMS. ARE YOU A PILOT, AIRTRAFFIC CONTROLLER or a PAIRTRAFFCONTROLFREAK.

If he confidently believed he and his family were in danger he would of REQUIRED RE-ROUTING after declaring an emergency.

Hi it is Plazbot's Secretary Shazza here. Plazbot is in the dunnie right now and when he comes out the room will smell like what DS is going on with.

Quite the safety freak, isn't he?

Oh, spare me. Not only does Dick read pprune but so does his secretary!

Secretary, a bit ol' fashioned isn't Dick. Surely Jane is more of a PA rather than a secretary.

Next we'll have media monitors for pprune. Hang on a sec. I might start my own business monitoring the internet on behalf of self-indulgent millionaires, no, make that self-indulgent multi-millionaires.

Can't get access to the internet in Switzerland - I don't believe that for a moment

Then Jane said:
So, if what Smith says is true (past performance and lies on these forums notwithstanding), he, by his own admission, wilfully refused clearance (because it did not suit him to fly IFR), thus deliberately exposing his family to the “unnecessary risk”, rather than accept that he would have to take the “safe” option but under IFR conditions.

If what Smith says is true, it seems to me that he is playing political games here and using his family’s lives as a pawn.

If what Smith says is true, his family’s lives were "risked" for sake of $33.17

IFR would have cost him:
Terminal Nav ($29.45) Rescue & Fire ($0.00) En-route ($30.88) Met Service ($2.29) Noise levy ($0.00) Total ($62.62)

A VFR plan would have cost him:

Terminal Nav ($29.45) Rescue & Fire ($0.00) En-route ($0.00) Met Service ($0.00) Noise levy ($0.00) Total ($29.45)

I’d like to see him explain that one in court!!!

Let's settle out of court and send him his $33.17 immediately. He can show the cheque to his family and tell them that is what he believes they are worth.

Can anyone within the BOM explain what meteorological conditions constitute a severe clear day??

:}

I've said it before, and I'll say it again ...


http://www.users.on.net/~drew.dickson/Dude.jpg

Endangering his family!
What about my family each time they have to fly in this crap!

Hi, this is ferris' secretary Elle, here. Ferris psychically felt that a thread was developing on pprune, and had me respond on his behalf (he's going thru rubbish bins for tonight's dinner). If Dick can't post in person when he is shown to be an idiot, but instructs his secretary to do so- because he magically believes a thread might be developing- then could he please reach out with his mind and inform all the other people who aren't reading pprune and can't post either, because some of them may not pick up the vibe otherwise.

DS's claim of endangering his family because of clearance refusal in this situation after a flight across a wide expanse of ocean is a patent crock of sh!te.

That (and ERSA) notwithstanding, it is interesting (if it is true) that an IFR clearance would be available whereas VFR was not - when there was apparently no meteorological reason to limit clearance to IFR only. If flight under such conditions is limited just to the "paying IFR pilot/flight" , this has implications for VFR pilots/flights traversing other controlled airspace, if such policies/behaviours become widespread.

Could someone enlighten me as to why VFR flight would not be allowed whereas IFR would be in such a situation (other than the fact that DS is at the yoke)?

Curious, in many respects.



[edited for dyslexic grammar]

126.7,
I agree, he DOES need re-routing!

Dick Smith before he Dicks You...

Hello Jane, so very nice to hear from you.
Could you please inform Dick that, although climbing in Switzerland, they have other providers other than Telstra so more than likely you have 24 hr high speed coverage country wide........apart from the fact that he would have had to have logged on to know this thread is in progress prior to sending his directive to respond on his behalf your way .......I shake my head in disgust.

Don't do it.
Don't anyone bite.

Churchhttp://smilies.jeeptalk.org/contrib/geno/asshole.gifll

http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/contrib/anym/nike.gif

(Duff is out of the office - this is Wench #1 speaking on his behalf)

Dick is entitled, like any pilot, to report a safety or procedural breach and ask for an official response. He is NOT entitled to abuse his relationships with the Minister for Transport and the media and libel Airservices and the controllers involved. Airservices should pursue a countersuit for libel.

As expected, Dick's office comes out with a selective statement of the facts involved. It's not our position to preemt the Airservices investigation - but there was a LOT more to it than a decision between IFR and VFR for clearance availability.

Dick, say an IFR or VFR clearance was available - but required a 20 NM diversion to pick up appropriate route. Would you have taken it? I thought not. By the way, tell us about your eastbound flight, wasn't that fun???? !

(Wench #1 out... now to ignore churchall)

Dear Jane,

Is Mr Smith available on the mobile? I reside in Switzerland and if its not too much trouble, I'll give him a call. On behalf of PpruNeRs I will climb the Eiger and get the full story verbatim.

CS

NoTimTams
Perhasp Smith is only telling halfthe story. Perhaps the deciding factor in determining whether or not a clearance was available was not the VFR/IFR question, but whether or not a flight plan had been filed.

The workload for a controller in handling a non-flight=planned flight in the TAAATS environment is considerably more than that for a flight-planned flight.

There is no cost for filing a VFR plan, so even the $33.17 to ensure his family's safety mentioned previously would not come into play.

Smith claims that his family was endangered, but it seems that any 'danger' was the result of a half-truth and the exagerration of a situation for political gain.

So, Smith -the truth this time - was it the fact that you decided to call up 'out of the blue' without details that led to this supposed 'danger' to your family? How do they feel about the way you conducted this flight?

Ahhh yes, The Aussie Air Traffic Controller workload and how considerable it is. :hmm:
ASA = Arrogant Service-disorientated Atc :rolleyes:

Churchall - try and stay on topic, and not drag it off onto your own petty agenda

Fishhead,

By "topic" do you mean DS bashing, rather than the issue of AsA inflexibility.

IF as the early post suggests, ATC would take DS IFR but not VFR then there is a real problem with the system.

CJ

I personally see the topic as being Mr Smith using the mass media to push a message which is fundamentally flawed - ie, the danger of a ditch through a 'forced descent' and diversion - despite having already chose a high risk route over water in a single engine aircraft.

Personally, I also fail to see the hassle in going IFR - after all, it's not like he hasnt got the rating! In all my flying, I go IFR, unless it is a very simple scenic flight around town. If going from A to B, IFR gives me a level of security (real or imagined in this airspace) that I am very comfortable with. If I am flying with my family, there is no way I would ever go anything other than IFR - simply irresponsible to my kids to do otherwise. Even in the rare case of a VFR transit somewhere, I still put a flight plan in - funnily enough, I have never experienced a clearance refusal.
Still, that is his barrow to push.

Does anyone know as a fact that no flightplan was submitted, as it is rather a central issue?

And as a clarification, dick mentioned he rang to see if IFR clearance would be availiable, then why would he ask for an VFR clearance?

I smell a rat. How many "secretary's" would know of, or use the term "severe clear day" to describe weather conditions?

. Thank God for small mercies.

Didn't someone mention ERSA, and transit not available below 10000' ? Why would Dick attempt to get a clearance for something that is proscribed, if it wasn't a media stunt? Does he rock up to military restricted areas, then complain that he didn't get clearance? Wasn't it Fri afternoon? Good time to try and transit SY!
As for AsA inflexibility- how flexible are the restrictions placed on ATC by the pollies? As to Dick claiming that IFR would've been available- I hope the facts are made public very soon. Maybe HE should be sued. It's about time someone took on the bully-boy.
"Give me clearance or I'll tell on you".
Doesn't 'use his influence'? My arse!

ENR 1.1-2 3.7. An air traffic clearance proposed by ATC DOES NOT relieve the pilot from complying with satutory requirements NOR from the responsibility for the ultimate safety of the aircraft.
IMHO if not getting a clearance from ATC was such a crtical matter for flight safety worthy of suing ASA (disregarding the time already spent out of gliding range) then THE PILOT IN COMMAND is the one responsible. If the clearance was not available then the word require or a phrase declaring an emergency should have been used. It is the pilot in command in this case who should sue himself (IMHO).

Personally I think Mountain climbers should be quaking in thier boots if Dick is now into that. God knows what regulations he might want to bring in to suit himself.

Right on ,
Capcom.:ok:

Dick,

you're a thug and an idiot. :8

Grow up.

TJ:yuk:

Pity he doesn't pursue them full time.

Dick doesn't do anything without an agenda. An opportunity to put the boot into ATC and Airservices can't be let pass.

I'm not biting at Winnie, god bless him, just posing a hypothetical.

I am led to believe the owner of a certain "airline" who doesn't like seeing his company named in these halls once failed a civil ATC course, thus explaining his lifetime hatred of ATC. (I am open to correction there.)

Although Winnie's own account of his successes indicate he is a cross between Weary Dunlop and Chuck Yeager, I wonder if his pathological hatred of Oz ATC could stem from the same source?

Just a thought. ;)

Oh really? Did you bludging, little educated, militants make up these little “factoids” in same breath you make up excuses for your disgracefully poor work ethic?
In fact, quite a bit less than 10% for the reader’s information…over 5000 airline passenger jets, over 1000 cargo jets, over 10,000 bizjets, over 200,000 GA airplanes on the US register. And they ALL get a clearance every time and on time with no fuss and no delay (except on occasion for weather).
Last time I checked, Australia did not have anywhere near 10% in any of these categories. Not to mention the number of “busy” terminal airspace airports in Australia can be counted on one hand. It is an insult to the airspace user (after paying the highest taxes in the world) to be subjected to these self-righteous, misguided, lazy incompetents.

Churchill

Let us remember that Australia only has 8% of The US's Population

6 P's Mate

Proper Planning Prevents PISS POOR performance.

I Suggest u do a little more research befor you cast Frivolous Comments

Churchall, if you don't like Australian ATC, change your bloody softare...



http://www.users.on.net/~drew.dickso.../flightSim.jpg

Have you noticed how his posts get more vitriolic the less bites he gets? Like a serial killer. More color, too. I'm opening a book on the colors used in the next one. 6/4 on purple.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story winny... :yuk:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-air08.html

You're quite right, ferris. He really is busting a boiler isn't he?

But I have to apologise. I led the discussion off track. Winnie is just a pimple on the butt of aviation, but school holidays will be over shortly and we should concentrate our energies on the real enemy, not one of his adoring sycophants.

As long as this government is in power, Smith wields influence. However I suspect this latest episode may prove to be the final nail in his coffin. Surely even Anderson can't allow himself to continue to be led by the balls after this, even if Dick does have a photo of JA dragging a sheep back from the edge of a cliff.

Come on John, every man reaches a point where he must face the truth about himself. You're old enough to do it now. It will hurt for a while, but after a few years you'll feel better. For once, man, think for yourself; you can do it!

Well now, let me see.

A cap of 80 movements an hour, and 4 positions open at any one time, and I’m being conservative. I make that 15 aircraft an hour per position. Now in a 15 minute window, which is about as long as it would have taken Dick to transit the airspace, any one controller would have been talking to the huge number of four aircraft.

Isn’t that really scary. Adding a VFR flight to that four, to make a grand total of 5 aircraft on frequency. My goodness that must be really scary. I wouldn’t want to do that job. Pushing Tin wasn’t as frightening. Better tell the Australian that you were up to your necks in crocodiles. You should have seen it – there was one over here, and, uh, another over here, and, wait a minute, did I tell you about the really fast one over here. And then out of the blue someone asked me for a clearance. Nobody ever asked me for one of those before. And VFR too. I wouldn’t have a clue about entering that into my system, without at least 2 hours notice. Then I’ll be gone home. How do I put that into TAAATS anyway? Use the keyboard! Don't think so, mate!

Anyway, 8500 VFR, I’d have to stop my departures at, what, 8500 less 1000, take away the number you first thought of, add one for mum, that’s 7000 feet. Never done that before. Qantas won’t like it, yeah, that’s a good excuse, blame Qantas. What about the arrivals, they’d have to stop at, let me see, take away the first number, yeah, that’s 10,000 feet. But the STAR says reach 8000 by – no that won’t work. The poor overworked RPT pilot will be confused and that would be unsafe. Guess that’s another excuse. Safety.

Hang on, maybe there’s a runway change coming. Let’s see, maybe a shift to 34 from 16, for noise sharing. Juggling all those airplanes and a VFR flight at the same time. Far too awkward.

Those Cessna’s are pretty noisy, and it might throw the noise stats out. Guess I could refuse a clearance on environmental grounds.

Wait a minute. Didn’t we fix that in ERSA. Yeah, clearance not available, that’ll fix it. Check your AIP you dumbo. Yeah, AIP and ERSA. Good thinking.

“Mr Smith this is, er, the Sydney Approach Service, er, sorry, make that Sydney Approach, er, uh, due to the tremendous workload at the moment, and the change of runways, and the enormous environmental, er, considerations here in Sydney, and, er, because the QNH thingymabob just went U/S, and, er, due to me being a slack-ar*ed bas***d, er, oh no, disregard the last. ERSA page 672, paragraph 67.2 line 6.72 requires that for flights under 10,000 feet you need to pass “GO”. Did you pass “GO”? Thought not. Clearance NOT available. Remain outside controlled airspace, call again passing “GO”.

There, that’ll do it, now, where was I.

4 down: two words, (4, 7): Just how energetic is the brown fox’s mate – and did he know his father? L - - - , - A - - - - R - .

As expected, the world’s laziest and most uncooperative controllers, Sydney TMA controllers, couldn’t handle one little VFR flight. Oh dear, they couldn’t manage to put a flight plan into TAAATS. Oh dear, they couldn’t even RADTAG the aircraft.

Guess Airservices Australia should take the word SERVICE out. We don’t do that here.

You blokes are pathetic. It's a wonder you're not issued with colostomy bags, because you couldn't separate the cheeks of your ar*e.

Put aside the fact that this was Dick Smith. Put aside the tripe about endangering his family. What possible reason could you lazy ba###rds have for refusing a clearance to anyone with that little traffic. Unbelievable. Never heard of radar separation? Seems like the rest of the civilized world has.

I hope Dick screws the hell out of Airservices, and I hope the traveling public see how patheticly the so-called cream of air traffic control has curdled. I hope Airservices gives you the biggest kick in the ar*e.

Even the Melbourne and Brissie TMA controllers can do better! Even a Tamworth controller, in a procedural tower, knows how to clear a VFR flight. God knows even a Launnie controller could do it, if he had control of the airspace! Time to lift your pathetic game.

Hear, hear.
Lift your game. What the hell were you thinking? It was late afternoon, and you were still only on 4 down? You should have at least 8 excuses ready to deny clearances. World's best? I don't think so! You earn $235,000 a year, and you LOWERED yourself to even reply to a VFR. Tsk tsk.

Oh, colostomy bags- another thing to put in the claim.

Coffee, anyone?