SY ATIS. Is anyone home!!Long.
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SY ATIS. Is anyone home!!Long.
G'day Guys
I have finally cracked it with whoever (if anyone) is actually responsible for the dribble and fictional tale which comes forth over 126.25 and 118.55 in a strange robotic voice mentioning letters of the phonetic variety.
Not only is it annoying it is becoming dangerous after todays experience(among other's).
Coming in from off the East Coast via shark we recieve the ATIS stating Few at 1000 scattered at 1600 and vis reducing to 4000m in showers.
Cool conditions not bad ok for a visual approach on breakout on the ILS.
Couldn't be easier so we think.
Anyway on downwind for 16L and we get a message from director that the HIAL's are on.
Why we ask ourselves,as DIR has nothing to add just the HIALs are on.Interesting!
OK we think do a last minute check of the ATIS to get an up to date report.
No changes on the ATIS except HIALS on.
Mmmmmm?
We decide to change config's for a full instrument app all the way to the bottom of the approach(lucky for us!).
Anyway over to the tower cleared to land with NO mention of any low cloud reduced vis on the app etc.
Anyway we became visual at 170ft above the minima 390 on Qnh and with vis down around 3000m in heavy drizzle/low cloud.
What is bloody going on up there!
Every other airport in Australia the tower would have provided an advisory of low vis and low cloud on the approach path.
Provide an ATIS which at least gives some semblence of accuracy as to the real conditions at the field.
On taxiing in and passing advice to the tower that we became visual at approx 400 on QNH this was not passed on to an a/c coming down the ILS.
My experience now at Sy airport is that the ATIS is regularly innacurate in cloud base by up to 1000 feet.
It seems that ATC think cloud base is insignificant as to how we operate aircraft.
If the wind changes by 5kts or 5 degrees a new atis will be out in seconds yet the cloud base can drop by hundreds of feet and vis can be way below quoted value's and no changes or advice from the tower is forthcoming.
I even heard a QF 76 driver speak about the total innacuracy of the ATI only to be given a phone number so he could be "sorted out" by the appropriate person!!!
One of the major causes of the Bangkok overrun was a tower controller not passing on accurate wx info to a crew flying an approach and getting something totally different than first thought and planned for.
We use the ATIS for gaining a mental picture of what is happening with the wx at the field.If its not accurate then it should be changed or info passed on at the first oppurtunity so we can plan a/c configurations approach briefs etc.
I would much prefer an ATIS update for a 600 ft reduction in cloud base than a 10degree change in wind direction anyday.
Get it right.
We depend on it and being able to do our job safely depends on it and accurate weather updates when it varies from it.
No that feels better!
I have finally cracked it with whoever (if anyone) is actually responsible for the dribble and fictional tale which comes forth over 126.25 and 118.55 in a strange robotic voice mentioning letters of the phonetic variety.
Not only is it annoying it is becoming dangerous after todays experience(among other's).
Coming in from off the East Coast via shark we recieve the ATIS stating Few at 1000 scattered at 1600 and vis reducing to 4000m in showers.
Cool conditions not bad ok for a visual approach on breakout on the ILS.
Couldn't be easier so we think.
Anyway on downwind for 16L and we get a message from director that the HIAL's are on.
Why we ask ourselves,as DIR has nothing to add just the HIALs are on.Interesting!
OK we think do a last minute check of the ATIS to get an up to date report.
No changes on the ATIS except HIALS on.
Mmmmmm?
We decide to change config's for a full instrument app all the way to the bottom of the approach(lucky for us!).
Anyway over to the tower cleared to land with NO mention of any low cloud reduced vis on the app etc.
Anyway we became visual at 170ft above the minima 390 on Qnh and with vis down around 3000m in heavy drizzle/low cloud.
What is bloody going on up there!
Every other airport in Australia the tower would have provided an advisory of low vis and low cloud on the approach path.
Provide an ATIS which at least gives some semblence of accuracy as to the real conditions at the field.
On taxiing in and passing advice to the tower that we became visual at approx 400 on QNH this was not passed on to an a/c coming down the ILS.
My experience now at Sy airport is that the ATIS is regularly innacurate in cloud base by up to 1000 feet.
It seems that ATC think cloud base is insignificant as to how we operate aircraft.
If the wind changes by 5kts or 5 degrees a new atis will be out in seconds yet the cloud base can drop by hundreds of feet and vis can be way below quoted value's and no changes or advice from the tower is forthcoming.
I even heard a QF 76 driver speak about the total innacuracy of the ATI only to be given a phone number so he could be "sorted out" by the appropriate person!!!
One of the major causes of the Bangkok overrun was a tower controller not passing on accurate wx info to a crew flying an approach and getting something totally different than first thought and planned for.
We use the ATIS for gaining a mental picture of what is happening with the wx at the field.If its not accurate then it should be changed or info passed on at the first oppurtunity so we can plan a/c configurations approach briefs etc.
I would much prefer an ATIS update for a 600 ft reduction in cloud base than a 10degree change in wind direction anyday.
Get it right.
We depend on it and being able to do our job safely depends on it and accurate weather updates when it varies from it.
No that feels better!
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Rammy,
The SY CATIS (computer ATIS) is updated by the SY tower staff; it used to be done by the coordinator position or Senior Tower; I'm not sure who does it now; there's a traffic manager there sometimes...
Anyway my suggestion is put in a CAIR report; describing events, time circumstances etc. There have been occassions when the CATIS is broadcasting different info to what is on the display at Directors/ approach Melbourne or Brisbane or even the tower cab itself; faults can occur etc. nothing seems failsafe anymore...
I agree with your sentiment about wind and QNH; they are easy to measure (reading the box) and keep accurate; cloud is different; depending on runway configuration etc the base can be very different for different runways; usually this info is updated based on pilot reports or otherwise is an educated guess at best. A mention of we nearly made a 'go round' because the cloud base is XXX will always get them adjusting things.
I agree with you whole heartedly that the info should be accurate but it is difficult to manage at times; particularly if short staffed or something else dramatic is going on that might not be know to others using the aerodrome etc. It's a matter of priorities I guess and if a 'go round' did occur because of the events you describe then that may be the lesser of two evils from the controllers perspective. You make the decision to land or not afterall... and that's the way it should be.
Bottle of Rum.
The SY CATIS (computer ATIS) is updated by the SY tower staff; it used to be done by the coordinator position or Senior Tower; I'm not sure who does it now; there's a traffic manager there sometimes...
Anyway my suggestion is put in a CAIR report; describing events, time circumstances etc. There have been occassions when the CATIS is broadcasting different info to what is on the display at Directors/ approach Melbourne or Brisbane or even the tower cab itself; faults can occur etc. nothing seems failsafe anymore...
I agree with your sentiment about wind and QNH; they are easy to measure (reading the box) and keep accurate; cloud is different; depending on runway configuration etc the base can be very different for different runways; usually this info is updated based on pilot reports or otherwise is an educated guess at best. A mention of we nearly made a 'go round' because the cloud base is XXX will always get them adjusting things.
I agree with you whole heartedly that the info should be accurate but it is difficult to manage at times; particularly if short staffed or something else dramatic is going on that might not be know to others using the aerodrome etc. It's a matter of priorities I guess and if a 'go round' did occur because of the events you describe then that may be the lesser of two evils from the controllers perspective. You make the decision to land or not afterall... and that's the way it should be.
Bottle of Rum.
Ramjager, why is it that approx 50% of taxiing aircraft call with the wrong ATIS ident on initial taxi request (sometimes 2 or 3 old ), surely if, as you say "We use the ATIS for gaining a mental picture of what is happening with the wx at the field" this should be checked prior to calling for taxi.
Easier to get the 'mental picture' of the weather when your sitting on the ground already! You don't need the ATIS to tell you it's raining when it's running down the windscreen, however it's harder to see the rain when your still 150 miles out ontop. Whilst it's more common to hear people call with the wrong code on taxi, pretty uncommon on arrival unless it's JUST changed.
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Keepemseparated,
Sadly you have provided a typical response expected of a public servant with little or no concept of providing a service to the paying customer. There is obviously a problem, but of course the provision of the service could not possibly be at fault.... it must be the customer.
Perhaps you would be best to consider the creed "the customer is always right" (although I would be the first to concede that some of our number in aviation are guilty of thinking they are right when often they are not).
Ramjager was not suggesting that the ATIS was not updated, just that the update was left wanting. The fact that "50% of aircraft" fail to have the correct version of the ATIS upon taxi should ring alarm bells. Could it be that the information is being updated with less important infomation too regularly. Many would say that any change to an ATIS would most certainly contain important info but from Ramjager's experience some important info was missed in this case.
My suggestion is that you grasp the concept that the guys up front are the paying customers (the employees of the paying customer at least - ie: the end user) and your lot in life is to provide a service directly to that customer. That may even mean that you will need to update the customer with the latest information - manually.... preferably with a smile. My experience over the last 20 years is that the bulk of your colleagues do infact reflect this attitude. I hope you wouldn't sully your mates' good work.
P.S. - There is a lot more going on in the flight deck prior to departure than simply checking an ATIS every few minutes. Any of the "majors" would gladly provide you with a famil. jumpseat ride to experience the workload first hand.
Sadly you have provided a typical response expected of a public servant with little or no concept of providing a service to the paying customer. There is obviously a problem, but of course the provision of the service could not possibly be at fault.... it must be the customer.
Perhaps you would be best to consider the creed "the customer is always right" (although I would be the first to concede that some of our number in aviation are guilty of thinking they are right when often they are not).
Ramjager was not suggesting that the ATIS was not updated, just that the update was left wanting. The fact that "50% of aircraft" fail to have the correct version of the ATIS upon taxi should ring alarm bells. Could it be that the information is being updated with less important infomation too regularly. Many would say that any change to an ATIS would most certainly contain important info but from Ramjager's experience some important info was missed in this case.
My suggestion is that you grasp the concept that the guys up front are the paying customers (the employees of the paying customer at least - ie: the end user) and your lot in life is to provide a service directly to that customer. That may even mean that you will need to update the customer with the latest information - manually.... preferably with a smile. My experience over the last 20 years is that the bulk of your colleagues do infact reflect this attitude. I hope you wouldn't sully your mates' good work.
P.S. - There is a lot more going on in the flight deck prior to departure than simply checking an ATIS every few minutes. Any of the "majors" would gladly provide you with a famil. jumpseat ride to experience the workload first hand.
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keepemseparated,
Speaking as an ex ATC, what's the difference between out of date info and the wrong info? Absolutely nothing, they're BOTH wrong. The fact that some of your customers don't bother to obtain the correct info before taxi does not absolve you of your responsibility to keep the current info correct.
Speaking as an ex ATC, what's the difference between out of date info and the wrong info? Absolutely nothing, they're BOTH wrong. The fact that some of your customers don't bother to obtain the correct info before taxi does not absolve you of your responsibility to keep the current info correct.
One of the problems here is that the ATIS does not seem to be updated at regular intervals, at major airports in OZ, and I must assume that YSSY is A major airport!!
It is not uncommon to receive the ATIS 200 miles out, and find the same ATIS current after 40 minutes on the ground.
If crew know that the ATIS is being updated every 30 minutes, (as happens at real airports O/S) they will look for it, even if there are no significant wx changes. The only time SYD changes its ATIS, seems to be when we are dictated to change runway and beat up someone else's back yard and land with maximum crosswind and least headwind.!!
It is not uncommon to receive the ATIS 200 miles out, and find the same ATIS current after 40 minutes on the ground.
If crew know that the ATIS is being updated every 30 minutes, (as happens at real airports O/S) they will look for it, even if there are no significant wx changes. The only time SYD changes its ATIS, seems to be when we are dictated to change runway and beat up someone else's back yard and land with maximum crosswind and least headwind.!!
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Fundamental difference's.
G'day Keepemseperated.
From your response it is clear there is a fundamental problem upstairs.
To get airborne and underway sure all we need are a temp and a w/v.Really couldn't care less whatthe cloud base is unless its below ILS minima as we can brief and discuss this at leisure on the ground beforehand.
IE,divert options after an engine failure etc.
But for approach from my perspective THE major information i want to hear is,
a)Rwy,Cloud base,viz,wind. Many people's order of priority differ but that is mine.As you can see the two most unupdated variable's are at the top of the list.
That is why there IS a problem.Crews are not being told about significant changes of wx below that stated on the ATIS.
I would of thought if i had a 767 coming down the ILS just a friendly warning of "some low cloud and reduced viz moving through the approach path" would be more than sufficent.
ANYTHING would be better than what is happening at the moment which is nothing.
Thanks at tleast for replying.
From your response it is clear there is a fundamental problem upstairs.
To get airborne and underway sure all we need are a temp and a w/v.Really couldn't care less whatthe cloud base is unless its below ILS minima as we can brief and discuss this at leisure on the ground beforehand.
IE,divert options after an engine failure etc.
But for approach from my perspective THE major information i want to hear is,
a)Rwy,Cloud base,viz,wind. Many people's order of priority differ but that is mine.As you can see the two most unupdated variable's are at the top of the list.
That is why there IS a problem.Crews are not being told about significant changes of wx below that stated on the ATIS.
I would of thought if i had a 767 coming down the ILS just a friendly warning of "some low cloud and reduced viz moving through the approach path" would be more than sufficent.
ANYTHING would be better than what is happening at the moment which is nothing.
Thanks at tleast for replying.
Nunc est bibendum
keepem, most drivers get the ATI when we commence our pre flight so on a 767, most blokes are getting it about 20 or so minutes before push back. For it to change two or three times in that time frame is pretty phenomenal but it does happen. We only listen out for the ATI when we get it but we listen to ACD or SMC the rest of the time. Any reason you blokes can't do an 'all stations' broadcast when the ATI changes with the changes. If we want to, we'll go back and get it, if we don't need to, we'll just call recieved that ATI when we taxi. It's not rocket science.
Approach or the closest sector to Sydney normally do that as well so it's not an unknown aspect for ATC to actually help out in that regard. Also I think it is a MEL thing as well as I recall them doing it from time to time (although not all the time).
Anyway, Rammy was providing some feedback. Instead of getting defensive and changing the subject and telling us how bad us drivers are, how about commenting on the specifics of his comments and places where we ALL could improve. We couldn't do our job without you guys, you couldn't do yours unless we were around. The sooner we get our heads around that issue, the quicker we can resolve discrepancies like this one.
Lastly, who needs a CAIR. I'd gladly stick my name to ASIR in circumstances like that!! Not like ASA can do anything to me!!
Approach or the closest sector to Sydney normally do that as well so it's not an unknown aspect for ATC to actually help out in that regard. Also I think it is a MEL thing as well as I recall them doing it from time to time (although not all the time).
Anyway, Rammy was providing some feedback. Instead of getting defensive and changing the subject and telling us how bad us drivers are, how about commenting on the specifics of his comments and places where we ALL could improve. We couldn't do our job without you guys, you couldn't do yours unless we were around. The sooner we get our heads around that issue, the quicker we can resolve discrepancies like this one.
Lastly, who needs a CAIR. I'd gladly stick my name to ASIR in circumstances like that!! Not like ASA can do anything to me!!
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ATIS??
As a new PPL I'm still coming to grips with the changes in the ATIS reporting and updating Philosophy, but, as a technician I know the automatic weather stations around every airport in the country produce 1 minute updated data in digital format.
Would it be too hard for this information to be inserted into ATIS automatically every minute? Then winds, temp, QNH and rainfall and in some instances local Vis would be only a minute old at worst.
This function is provided where the Met Bureau has supplied AWIB information for the VOR or NDB. Is ATIS less important or is it seen as treading on someones job allowing a computer to do the updating.
Automation is a bane to many people and keeping their jobs but safety is paramount in this situation.
Would it be too hard for this information to be inserted into ATIS automatically every minute? Then winds, temp, QNH and rainfall and in some instances local Vis would be only a minute old at worst.
This function is provided where the Met Bureau has supplied AWIB information for the VOR or NDB. Is ATIS less important or is it seen as treading on someones job allowing a computer to do the updating.
Automation is a bane to many people and keeping their jobs but safety is paramount in this situation.
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WEll, I might need updating here, but is it not required to notify TWR of the actual cloud base on becoming visual? Don't have Jepps on hand right now but am sure there is something on it in there. Perhaps TWR would be more aware of cloud bases and vis if we all complied in this.
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ATIS - Australian Airports
Without wanting to provoke a trans-tasman war - it doesn't seem to take much - I would like to make the observation, from my own experience, and without any "value judgement" on the issue, that at the major Aussie airports at least, the ATIS is changed more frequently than would seem to be necessary, ie, in terms of minor changes - there may be a mandatory requirement of an hourly reissue I am unaware of perhaps? Any comments?
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G'day Nzer
Thats half my point.
It seems the ATIS gets changed for the meanial changes but when something occurs which really does affect how WE fly an approach it is not.
Almost like a cry wolf scenario,i don't know how many times we have loooked at one another in amazement trying to figure out WHY the ATIS was changed in the first place. Then you have an incident like the other day where conditions where that bad and no-one notices whats happening outside the glass.
Its very easy to get the impression that we are serving ATC and not the other way around.
Thats half my point.
It seems the ATIS gets changed for the meanial changes but when something occurs which really does affect how WE fly an approach it is not.
Almost like a cry wolf scenario,i don't know how many times we have loooked at one another in amazement trying to figure out WHY the ATIS was changed in the first place. Then you have an incident like the other day where conditions where that bad and no-one notices whats happening outside the glass.
Its very easy to get the impression that we are serving ATC and not the other way around.
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ATIS
Howdy all. From an ATC point of view, it sounds like poor reportng to me. With regard to changes in the ATIS, some people think some changes are small and insignificnt, but there are times when you have to change it. And I quote from MATS:
5.1.12.1 ATIS information shall be revised and a new code letter assigned when:
a. the requirement for, or type of instrument approach is changed;
b. the take–off or landing runway is changed;
c. changes occur in the operational status of the aerodrome or its facilities;
d. the current values of meteorological information vary by or exceed the following values and are expected to remain that way for at least 15 minutes:
Wind
direction 10 degrees - speed 5 knots
QNH
1 hectopascal
Temperature
1 degree
Cloud (below 5,000 AGL)
base 200 FT - amount changes from one descriptor to another
Visibility
Between 2,000 M and 10KM - 1000 M (1KM);
Less than 2,000 M - RVR, when available, shall be recorded.
e. Changes to windshear status.
These are when we have to change the ATIS. I don't know about doing the mandatory half hour ATIS change - it would be pretty pointless in some locations. I remember having the same ATIS on for 6 hours once! Why bother changing it for changes sake? It was perfectally accurate.
Ramjager: Just a quick one. While I whould heartedly agree with your post and about the accuracy of the ATIS, I was quite interested to hear you talking about briefing/performing a full instrument APP or just enough of it to get visual. Is this common practice? I didn't know that that went on. If you don't brief it all the way to the minimas and you don't get visual at the expected level, do your company SOPs allow you to continue down or do you have to do a missed approach? Why bother briefing/flying it at all if you only do half of it? Wouldn't it be better to just do the lot 'just incase'? You have proved already that this may save your hide once in a while....
Keg: Good post. It is a big team game and we are all on the same side.
I think good reading for ATC and aircrew alike is the following link to weather a related incident at Brisbane.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=430
I used it to illustrate to some of the guys who haven't worked a wet season yet just how important it is to get weather info correct and get it out to the people who need to know.
Anyway, enough said. Have a good weekend. Cheers,
NFR.
5.1.12.1 ATIS information shall be revised and a new code letter assigned when:
a. the requirement for, or type of instrument approach is changed;
b. the take–off or landing runway is changed;
c. changes occur in the operational status of the aerodrome or its facilities;
d. the current values of meteorological information vary by or exceed the following values and are expected to remain that way for at least 15 minutes:
Wind
direction 10 degrees - speed 5 knots
QNH
1 hectopascal
Temperature
1 degree
Cloud (below 5,000 AGL)
base 200 FT - amount changes from one descriptor to another
Visibility
Between 2,000 M and 10KM - 1000 M (1KM);
Less than 2,000 M - RVR, when available, shall be recorded.
e. Changes to windshear status.
These are when we have to change the ATIS. I don't know about doing the mandatory half hour ATIS change - it would be pretty pointless in some locations. I remember having the same ATIS on for 6 hours once! Why bother changing it for changes sake? It was perfectally accurate.
Ramjager: Just a quick one. While I whould heartedly agree with your post and about the accuracy of the ATIS, I was quite interested to hear you talking about briefing/performing a full instrument APP or just enough of it to get visual. Is this common practice? I didn't know that that went on. If you don't brief it all the way to the minimas and you don't get visual at the expected level, do your company SOPs allow you to continue down or do you have to do a missed approach? Why bother briefing/flying it at all if you only do half of it? Wouldn't it be better to just do the lot 'just incase'? You have proved already that this may save your hide once in a while....
Keg: Good post. It is a big team game and we are all on the same side.
I think good reading for ATC and aircrew alike is the following link to weather a related incident at Brisbane.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=430
I used it to illustrate to some of the guys who haven't worked a wet season yet just how important it is to get weather info correct and get it out to the people who need to know.
Anyway, enough said. Have a good weekend. Cheers,
NFR.
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G'day Nofurtherrequirements
Thanks for the info on the ATIS changes and requirements.
Just on the briefs you will find many companies vary landing configurations based on Wx/Rwy requirements.
If we are going to be visual by 1000ft then any configuration can be used but if not then an instrument app config is required to be used.
This not only changes the physical config of the a/c but also an entire procedural change in terms of full app brief's as opposed self briefs etc.
This is where i think the problem is as i am not sure you guys are told or taught that the way we fly and how we fly strictly depends on conditions at the field.
If its BKN at 2000 and we are using the ILS to become visual at 7nm below the base you will find that most crews are doing a self brief of the app freq's final app crs etc as there is NO intention of going even remotely near the minima or even past the FAF.
We are often told via the ATIS at YSSY to expect an ILS yet we are visual at 35-45nm with only sct cloud below and the field in sight.No matter how many visual calls you make we still end up out at 15-17nm being vertored around the loop onto an ILS which is not required.
ATC is SY do a good job generally in the conditions in which they are req'd to operate what we want is a little more proactive info from the guys and girls in the tower.
PS Talking about ATIS i think CB is the opposite end of the spectrum as on Wed the temp went from 22 to 33 as the info went from Romeo to sierra!!
All the best
Thanks for the info on the ATIS changes and requirements.
Just on the briefs you will find many companies vary landing configurations based on Wx/Rwy requirements.
If we are going to be visual by 1000ft then any configuration can be used but if not then an instrument app config is required to be used.
This not only changes the physical config of the a/c but also an entire procedural change in terms of full app brief's as opposed self briefs etc.
This is where i think the problem is as i am not sure you guys are told or taught that the way we fly and how we fly strictly depends on conditions at the field.
If its BKN at 2000 and we are using the ILS to become visual at 7nm below the base you will find that most crews are doing a self brief of the app freq's final app crs etc as there is NO intention of going even remotely near the minima or even past the FAF.
We are often told via the ATIS at YSSY to expect an ILS yet we are visual at 35-45nm with only sct cloud below and the field in sight.No matter how many visual calls you make we still end up out at 15-17nm being vertored around the loop onto an ILS which is not required.
ATC is SY do a good job generally in the conditions in which they are req'd to operate what we want is a little more proactive info from the guys and girls in the tower.
PS Talking about ATIS i think CB is the opposite end of the spectrum as on Wed the temp went from 22 to 33 as the info went from Romeo to sierra!!
All the best
Perhaps my response was out of line, for that I do apolagise. I guess the main reason was that we only ever hear things when something goes wrong or isn't to someones liking. I didn't see a post regarding the efforts of the guys /gals during the days of 25 only, when we were working our butts off to get every one away as quickly as possible.
Several points though. The mention of the HIALS is a requirement from our end when the vis is below 5000m and they are switched on. The all stations broadcast of the changes is something that does take place, and it is amazing that even after you make such a broadcast the number of a/c that will still call with the old info, despite being pushed back at the time. And on the famil rides the last time we looked into it they had been banned after September 11.
Oh and clive that service that you talk about would be the same that had me delayed for 12 hours without so much as an explanation from the company involved. So service does work both ways.
And public servant OUCH!
Several points though. The mention of the HIALS is a requirement from our end when the vis is below 5000m and they are switched on. The all stations broadcast of the changes is something that does take place, and it is amazing that even after you make such a broadcast the number of a/c that will still call with the old info, despite being pushed back at the time. And on the famil rides the last time we looked into it they had been banned after September 11.
Oh and clive that service that you talk about would be the same that had me delayed for 12 hours without so much as an explanation from the company involved. So service does work both ways.
And public servant OUCH!
Last edited by keepemseperated; 28th Nov 2002 at 00:32.
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Hey Keepem', QF service isn't always bad, just like ATC service isn't always excellent.
My last flight kept me in the luxurious BN domestic terminal late on a Sunday evening for four hours due u/s acft, meanwhile over five other equivalent flights left for my destination and I wasn't even offered a transfer! Hmph.
What comes around goes around. Oh, that reminds me, but it probably deserves its own thread... greasing the ATC wheel, QF style.
But so much of this banter comes down to each party not having any idea of the other's job. Famil flights have been out for over a year (not that they were accessible before that anyway), and how often do rpt drivers plug in to Approach control for a couple of hours for famil?
My last flight kept me in the luxurious BN domestic terminal late on a Sunday evening for four hours due u/s acft, meanwhile over five other equivalent flights left for my destination and I wasn't even offered a transfer! Hmph.
What comes around goes around. Oh, that reminds me, but it probably deserves its own thread... greasing the ATC wheel, QF style.
But so much of this banter comes down to each party not having any idea of the other's job. Famil flights have been out for over a year (not that they were accessible before that anyway), and how often do rpt drivers plug in to Approach control for a couple of hours for famil?
Home Brew,
Perhaps this is because at some O/S airports the ATIS isn't actually done from the Tower but from using the METAR. Yep, done from the APCH room using the info from MET, and using TRUE winds from the MET sensor rather than MAGNETIC winds.
Its hard to defend the indefensible but I'd be interested in the date that prompted the initial post and I'll compare the ATIS with the METAR/SPECI.
One of the problems here is that the ATIS does not seem to be updated at regular intervals, at major airports in OZ, and I must assume that YSSY is A major airport!!
Its hard to defend the indefensible but I'd be interested in the date that prompted the initial post and I'll compare the ATIS with the METAR/SPECI.