QANTAS operating single pilot?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
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QANTAS operating single pilot?
As Air New Zealand , aka Air Sheep, only operate a 737 from Brisbane to Christchurch - whereas QANTAS run a 76 - AND because I have always found the QF cabin crew far more genial and less despotic than TE's, I decided to give my family a break from the sun, sea, and sand, of the Gold Coast, and fly across to the Shaky Isles for a couple of weeks.
(There's a great little town called Hanmer Springs about 130kms north of Christchurch, that offers fantastic scenery, great restaurants, thermal pools, jet boating, etc).
We were fortunate enough to have enough FF points to get an upgrade to Business Class, and perhaps that was ONE reason that the cabin service was par excellence, along with pretty good solid and liquid consumables!
The time in Hanmer was relaxing, and not expensive as the NZD runs at around 2:1 to the USD, and the flight back to Oz was fairly much on a par (from the cabin service aspect) with the one going over.
However, on BOTH occasions the Captain made the PA, and in EACH case there was not a mention of the First Officer's name.
Likewise with the "Welcome" PA made by the cabin crew prior to flight - the Captain's name, and that of the Senior cabin attendant and one or 2 others is given - but no acknowledgement of the second-in-command's presence.
If nothing else, I would have thought that common COURTESY would dictate including the F/O's name in at least one of the PA's - probably the Captain's.
It IS something that I, as a full fare-paying passenger/customer notice.
(There's a great little town called Hanmer Springs about 130kms north of Christchurch, that offers fantastic scenery, great restaurants, thermal pools, jet boating, etc).
We were fortunate enough to have enough FF points to get an upgrade to Business Class, and perhaps that was ONE reason that the cabin service was par excellence, along with pretty good solid and liquid consumables!
The time in Hanmer was relaxing, and not expensive as the NZD runs at around 2:1 to the USD, and the flight back to Oz was fairly much on a par (from the cabin service aspect) with the one going over.
However, on BOTH occasions the Captain made the PA, and in EACH case there was not a mention of the First Officer's name.
Likewise with the "Welcome" PA made by the cabin crew prior to flight - the Captain's name, and that of the Senior cabin attendant and one or 2 others is given - but no acknowledgement of the second-in-command's presence.
If nothing else, I would have thought that common COURTESY would dictate including the F/O's name in at least one of the PA's - probably the Captain's.
It IS something that I, as a full fare-paying passenger/customer notice.
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Kap,
I recently heard some one pontificating that the latest in Airline Corporate PR thinking with respect to PAs is that the SLF only want to hear the Skipper's name. Additionally they only want to hear from the Skipper, that way they can delude themselves that it is really s/he flying, rather than the 'wannabe' in the RHS.
And before I get flamed for referring to F/Os as a wannabe, think back to the good old days, pre Sept 11.
Pax comes to flight deck for a look-see, asks dumb questions, including this example to the F/O, " do you want to be a commercial pilot one day"?
And before I get flamed for referring to F/Os as a wannabe, think back to the good old days, pre Sept 11.
Pax comes to flight deck for a look-see, asks dumb questions, including this example to the F/O, " do you want to be a commercial pilot one day"?
I look forward to the day that I settle in to my seat at the cinema and hear the dulcet tones of Simon the projectionist...
"Welcome to Greater Union's 6.30 screening of Lethal Weapon 6, starring Mel Gibson. My name is Simon and I will be your projectionist for the session. Assisting me today with door duties is Sandra and Paul and Julie are at the candy bar. This cinema is equipped with the latest THX cinema sound system to enhance your viewing pleasure. The cinema is maintained at a pleasant 22 degrees for your comfort. In the interests of safety please refrain from smoking and in your own best interest please switch off your mobile phone now as it may interfere with someones head. In the event of an emergency, safety lighting will illuminate, please exit by the doors to the sides of the screen. So now sit back relax and enjoy the film and I'll speak to you again as we approach the end of the session."
No more ridiculous than some of the credits for films that scroll past, the dog wrangler, best boy etc. Who cares?
Buy a new car and there is no honour roll in the boot showing who welded the seams and who installed the engine...
Let's move away from the mentality that came with early cars and aircraft, you know, walk in front with a red flag to warn people it is coming.
"Welcome to Greater Union's 6.30 screening of Lethal Weapon 6, starring Mel Gibson. My name is Simon and I will be your projectionist for the session. Assisting me today with door duties is Sandra and Paul and Julie are at the candy bar. This cinema is equipped with the latest THX cinema sound system to enhance your viewing pleasure. The cinema is maintained at a pleasant 22 degrees for your comfort. In the interests of safety please refrain from smoking and in your own best interest please switch off your mobile phone now as it may interfere with someones head. In the event of an emergency, safety lighting will illuminate, please exit by the doors to the sides of the screen. So now sit back relax and enjoy the film and I'll speak to you again as we approach the end of the session."
No more ridiculous than some of the credits for films that scroll past, the dog wrangler, best boy etc. Who cares?
Buy a new car and there is no honour roll in the boot showing who welded the seams and who installed the engine...
Let's move away from the mentality that came with early cars and aircraft, you know, walk in front with a red flag to warn people it is coming.
Last edited by Icarus2001; 3rd Nov 2002 at 06:03.
Nunc est bibendum
F/Os have no last name
Along a similar line is the propensity for the domestic CSMs to not acknowledge the F/Os surname. In 99% of cases the CSM will announce over the PA that the Captains name is 'Joe Bloggs and the F/O is Tony'. No surname but at least I do rate a mention. The other interesting part of that is that requirements such as wheelchair requirements and so on are ALWAYS directed at the F/O- even if I'm the one doing the sector.
That said Kap, I'd have to reckon that about 50% of the skippers actually do acknowledge the F/O. I try to acknowledge the S/O when I'm doing the PA and we've got one on board as well (if the boss hasn't done so already!). I guess some have learnt common courtesy over the years, others haven't.
Glad to hear the flight was pleasant though. Sorry I wasn't there this time!
That said Kap, I'd have to reckon that about 50% of the skippers actually do acknowledge the F/O. I try to acknowledge the S/O when I'm doing the PA and we've got one on board as well (if the boss hasn't done so already!). I guess some have learnt common courtesy over the years, others haven't.
Glad to hear the flight was pleasant though. Sorry I wasn't there this time!
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Does it bother you, Keg? 
Have to say I didn't worry too much when I was in the RH seat. That way nobody knew that it was my landing Come to think of it, I couldn't care less whether my name is mentioned now or not.
Ego is an interesting creature isn't it?
Have to say I didn't worry too much when I was in the RH seat. That way nobody knew that it was my landing
Come to think of it, I couldn't care less whether my name is mentioned now or not. Ego is an interesting creature isn't it?
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Well, Capt old chap, believe it or not, by express direction of our employers, we are told that the full fare paying pax do NOT want to know anything about the F/O and SPECIFICALLY if he is flying the a/c!!
However, some may protest this by not making any PA's as Capt and letting the F/O do the lot on his [hs usage] sector, unless some greater operational requirement comes up. They are still NOT told that the F/O is actually FLYING the a/c, and so corporate direction is faithfully obeyed.
Some guys do announce who the F/O is and also add surname.
G'day
However, some may protest this by not making any PA's as Capt and letting the F/O do the lot on his [hs usage] sector, unless some greater operational requirement comes up. They are still NOT told that the F/O is actually FLYING the a/c, and so corporate direction is faithfully obeyed.
Some guys do announce who the F/O is and also add surname.
G'day
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Thread Starter
"...the full fare paying pax do NOT want to know anything about the F/O and SPECIFICALLY if he is flying the a/c!!"
Well whoever told you that is telling LIES, Feather #3, because I and my family are full fare paying pax!
And WHY would we - the full fare paying pax (you can disregard those "scum" that fly on discounted tickets, eh what!) be listening to hear mention of another crew member on the flight deck?
Rumour has it that the public has a short memory, however it's not SO short that they have forgotten QANTAS' Bangkok accident.
The Captain who makes a PA and does NOT make mention of whom his F/O is - to me - comes across as something of a one-man-band.....the arrogant, authoritarian, CAPTAIN, who makes ALL the decisions and proceeds with them, regardless of changing circumstances, and protestations from the other crew member(s).
CRM - which I'd have thought would be ahot issue in QF - would most certainly debunk the myths being spread that the SLF want to hear ONLY from the Captain!
What message does that send to some CAPTAINS who already believe that CRM is a load of bollocks, and that F/O stands for "Flap Operator" and nothing more?!
Conversely, what message does it relay to the F/O who is already somewhat reluctant to speak out?
Like it or not, multi-crew operations are a TEAM effort, and part of the psyche in reinforcing that in the minds of those who don't warm to that idea is to consider the other member(s) of the TEAM.
Pity you weren't there to renew acquaintances, Keg - Cheers mate!
Well whoever told you that is telling LIES, Feather #3, because I and my family are full fare paying pax!
And WHY would we - the full fare paying pax (you can disregard those "scum" that fly on discounted tickets, eh what!) be listening to hear mention of another crew member on the flight deck?
Rumour has it that the public has a short memory, however it's not SO short that they have forgotten QANTAS' Bangkok accident.
The Captain who makes a PA and does NOT make mention of whom his F/O is - to me - comes across as something of a one-man-band.....the arrogant, authoritarian, CAPTAIN, who makes ALL the decisions and proceeds with them, regardless of changing circumstances, and protestations from the other crew member(s).
CRM - which I'd have thought would be ahot issue in QF - would most certainly debunk the myths being spread that the SLF want to hear ONLY from the Captain!
What message does that send to some CAPTAINS who already believe that CRM is a load of bollocks, and that F/O stands for "Flap Operator" and nothing more?!
Conversely, what message does it relay to the F/O who is already somewhat reluctant to speak out?
Like it or not, multi-crew operations are a TEAM effort, and part of the psyche in reinforcing that in the minds of those who don't warm to that idea is to consider the other member(s) of the TEAM.
Pity you weren't there to renew acquaintances, Keg - Cheers mate!
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Thread Starter
As you've seen fit to peruse the subject, and take the time to post a comment, Woftam, you might like to expound YOUR views a little further on this aspect of CRM.
Hmmmm, thought not.
Hmmmm, thought not.
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At work we have one training captain who has told all the flight attendents they must always call him captain even if he is in the r/h seat. I have seen this captain abuse f/a's if they get it wrong
I've told the FA's just to say "on behalf of the crew" that way it covers everyone including them. Big deal if the captain's name is not said.
I've told the FA's just to say "on behalf of the crew" that way it covers everyone including them. Big deal if the captain's name is not said.
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To perhaps add fuel to the fire;
I regularly fly in a 4 pilot crew. One could accuse some contributors to this thread of ignoring the Second Officer/s [about which considerably more elswhere in D&G! ] The 'Classic' flies with 4 pilots and a Flight Engineer; the latter an integral part of the team.
So, do we then institute a roll-call of flight deck personnel in our first PA?
But wait; there's more! CRM is Crew Resource Management is it not? We've left out 13 of the Cabin Crew [only the Boss and Supervisor of the rear cabin are introduced at the moment.]Where do we draw the line?
G'day
I regularly fly in a 4 pilot crew. One could accuse some contributors to this thread of ignoring the Second Officer/s [about which considerably more elswhere in D&G! ] The 'Classic' flies with 4 pilots and a Flight Engineer; the latter an integral part of the team.
So, do we then institute a roll-call of flight deck personnel in our first PA?
But wait; there's more! CRM is Crew Resource Management is it not? We've left out 13 of the Cabin Crew [only the Boss and Supervisor of the rear cabin are introduced at the moment.]Where do we draw the line?
G'day
Generally, pax are bombarded with PA's (mostly generated by "commercial management types" who want to minimise QF's exposure to litigation). Consequently, I try to keep my PA's to the shortest possible but still get the important information to the pax, and thus I don't mention the other crew members names except when another crew member is flying the sector, then I introduce him/her. Most pax just want to get on with the movie or reading etc.
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Kaptin M the company has said that we are not to mention the fact that it is the FO flying the sector. However the FO usually does the PA when it is his/her sector introducing themselves as FO*****. Now whether or not I agree with it is immaterial, I go along with what they ask within reason. (Their trainset)
To suggest that this will break down CRM is a joke. Do you really think that a crew member who is weak on CRM is going to be any different whether a name is mentioned or not, I don't!
To suggest that this will break down CRM is a joke. Do you really think that a crew member who is weak on CRM is going to be any different whether a name is mentioned or not, I don't!
Last edited by Offchocks; 4th Nov 2002 at 00:11.
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Dearest Kaptin M,
I saw fit to peruse the subject because of the title,NOT the content.(false advertising?)
I took time to post a comment because I think you are drawing a VERY long bow associating CRM with the fact that the F/O was not mentioned on TWO occassions!
Yes, I DO mention the F/O in my PA's and they even call me by my first name! (shock,horror).
Do your F/O's call you by first name?
"Nice sunrise isn't it Captain"
Hmmmm Thought not.
I saw fit to peruse the subject because of the title,NOT the content.(false advertising?)
I took time to post a comment because I think you are drawing a VERY long bow associating CRM with the fact that the F/O was not mentioned on TWO occassions!
Yes, I DO mention the F/O in my PA's and they even call me by my first name! (shock,horror).
Do your F/O's call you by first name?
"Nice sunrise isn't it Captain"
Hmmmm Thought not.
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jtr
Since this thread has finally swung this way, may I ask...
Is it generally accepted that the Captain shall be addressed as "Captain", or similar, by other flight deck members in QF?
Never had the opportunity to ask.
Re. the original post, I have worked on 2,3 and 4 member crews for 6 years, and been mentioned in the PA's twice. This is standard in the mob I work for. In fact as SLF, I often glance around to see who is listening to the Captains blurb. Often no-one!
Is it generally accepted that the Captain shall be addressed as "Captain", or similar, by other flight deck members in QF?
Never had the opportunity to ask.
Re. the original post, I have worked on 2,3 and 4 member crews for 6 years, and been mentioned in the PA's twice. This is standard in the mob I work for. In fact as SLF, I often glance around to see who is listening to the Captains blurb. Often no-one!
