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Old 20th Dec 2023, 21:43
  #1221 (permalink)  
 
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Come on you lot. Obvious troll is obvious.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 11:38
  #1222 (permalink)  
 
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I mean who’s really the troll here ? The one baiting people or the ones voting yes!
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 00:35
  #1223 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by j3pipercub
Come on you lot. Obvious troll is obvious.
The latest proposal at network:

Replacement of FIFO allowance with DHA of Capt $10.93 and FO $7.11 per hour. Offset by a “Low/Junior experience” salary rate where the pilot enters the main salary scale at the sooner of 1500 hrs or 3 years at Network.

I am sure one of the actual network pilots here can confirm they have been hiring and interviewing sub 1000 hr pilots.

The advertisement I saw with 700 TT was on one of those unofficial Facebook pilot job pages. Workday and seek still list 1500TT but refer to what I wrote earlier which would make those requirements redundant.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 01:11
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Originally Posted by soseg
Workday and seek still list 1500TT but refer to what I wrote earlier which would make those requirements redundant.
ATPL subjects are also listed as a requirement, but I have been told by a good source inside that these are being waived as there are simply not enough suitably qualified candidates. It probably means the total time can and is being waived too.

If there ever was a time to grab management by the short and curlies to achieve something close to mainline, now was that time. But I suppose this is the very reason why subsidiaries exist. Still, very disappointing to know a first year A320 captain at network is gonna gross low 200Ks.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 01:15
  #1225 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jester64
If there ever was a time to grab management by the short and curlies to achieve something close to mainline, now was that time. But I suppose this is the very reason why subsidiaries exist. Still, very disappointing to know a first year A320 captain at network is gonna gross low 200Ks.
Something close to mainline? Are you kidding? I reckon something equal to Jetstar is a goal. If you want mainline money, go work for mainline and go through the same process every other mainline pilot has had to do.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 01:22
  #1226 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
Something close to mainline? Are you kidding? I reckon something equal to Jetstar is a goal. If you want mainline money, go work for mainline and go through the same process every other mainline pilot has had to do.
Whether you think they deserve it or not, couldn’t care less. But this was their chance to get somewhat close, as I heard this was their initial goal.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 01:49
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Originally Posted by morno
...and go through the same process every other mainline pilot has had to do.
C'mon Man!
It's hardly a NASA selection process - you lot making it out to be such, should seriously get over yourselves
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 02:19
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Originally Posted by Jester64
ATPL subjects are also listed as a requirement, but I have been told by a good source inside that these are being waived as there are simply not enough suitably qualified candidates. It probably means the total time can and is being waived too.

If there ever was a time to grab management by the short and curlies to achieve something close to mainline, now was that time. But I suppose this is the very reason why subsidiaries exist. Still, very disappointing to know a first year A320 captain at network is gonna gross low 200Ks.
This hits the nail on the head and I wonder if we as existing experienced multi crew pilots have been negotiating wrong for these past few years. There will never be a full blown pilot shortage here like we have seen in the US and I think we can all list the reasons why that may be so. However there will (probably is already now) be a full blown EXPERIENCED pilot shortage. What do I mean by that? I mean a severe lack of upgradeable pilots who are able to quickly fill multicrew turbine command positions. Ie ATPLs, suitable previous experience, over 3000TT etc…

Airlines are ALL (except qf mainline atm) going to move towards a cadet based FO intake in the next few years. GA is on life support in this country and as multi engine pistons get scrapped, there will be minimal pilots coming from this traditional background. The new GA is RHS of a saab, dash, ejet or fokker.

As pilots negotiating ebas that cover the next 4 or so years, why dont we look towards rewarding experience and perhaps setting a more appropriate entry level wage for sub-1000hr pilots. Im not talking pay cuts or B scales necessarily but I think our thinking needs to shift with how we sell ourselves to airlines in order to make significant gains. In the future those of us with command time and ATPLs etc will become hugely valuable. FO’s with newly minted cpl’s will be a dime a dozen through the myriad FTA type schools. Set salarys based on experience levels and we may just see some proper gains in the industry….

Food for thought.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 02:28
  #1229 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by soseg
The latest proposal at network:

Replacement of FIFO allowance with DHA of Capt $10.93 and FO $7.11 per hour. Offset by a “Low/Junior experience” salary rate where the pilot enters the main salary scale at the sooner of 1500 hrs or 3 years at Network.

I am sure one of the actual network pilots here can confirm they have been hiring and interviewing sub 1000 hr pilots.

The advertisement I saw with 700 TT was on one of those unofficial Facebook pilot job pages. Workday and seek still list 1500TT but refer to what I wrote earlier which would make those requirements redundant.
The Turboprop’s just agreed to a DHA rate for Captain’s of over $15/hr.

Food for thought.

Last edited by Going Nowhere; 22nd Dec 2023 at 02:56.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 02:41
  #1230 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
Something close to mainline? Are you kidding? I reckon something equal to Jetstar is a goal.
Wouldn’t achieving something ‘close to mainline’ actually put upward pressure on salaries for a change? A rising tide lifts all boats.
Originally Posted by morno
If you want mainline money, go work for mainline and go through the same process every other mainline pilot has had to do.
If it’s good enough for a subsidiary to fly QANTAS passengers in similar aircraft to similar destinations using QF flight numbers, WTF has ‘going through the same process as every other mainline pilot’ got to do with it? You should get paid a similar salary for doing similar work, not because you jagged an interview.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 02:52
  #1231 (permalink)  
 
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Stop sniping and stay focussed on the main game.

That main game is NOT to have the hourly rate halved when flying over 59 hours.

Everything else is peripheral and largely irrelevant. Allowances, FIFO allowance, DHA, whatever you call it, sign on bonuses, even backpay - irrelevant. You’ll pay for those things over and over again if you don’t fix the hourly rate over 59 hours.

Focus.

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 22nd Dec 2023 at 03:04.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 04:30
  #1232 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jester64
These are exactly the types I like to fly with. They call a spade a spade. I get it’s 2023 Pineapples, but someone needs to say it. Your’e known as the bin chickens now, it’s only gonna get worse for Network if this ****ty EBA gets voted up.
Wait, you’re saying you want to fly next to someone that says you and every other captain not only is crap at your job but also doesn’t deserve to hold a CPL?

That’s weird mate. It might be true for some, but not all.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 05:03
  #1233 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer
Wouldn’t achieving something ‘close to mainline’ actually put upward pressure on salaries for a change? A rising tide lifts all boats.

If it’s good enough for a subsidiary to fly QANTAS passengers in similar aircraft to similar destinations using QF flight numbers, WTF has ‘going through the same process as every other mainline pilot’ got to do with it? You should get paid a similar salary for doing similar work, not because you jagged an interview.
No worries, then I look forward to every Network pilot starting out as SO’s just like every other mainline pilot has had to.

The point I’m trying to make is more that if they want equal pay, then they to can get in line and wait 15-20 years to get their commands back.

I have no problem with a good boost in the rate at Network, and I agree it’ll lift all other salaries. But you’re kidding yourselves if you think you should get equal pay.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 05:10
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Originally Posted by morno
No worries, then I look forward to every Network pilot starting out as SO’s just like every other mainline pilot has had to.

The point I’m trying to make is more that if they want equal pay, then they to can get in line and wait 15-20 years to get their commands back.

I have no problem with a good boost in the rate at Network, and I agree it’ll lift all other salaries. But you’re kidding yourselves if you think you should get equal pay.
would a mainline SO make as much as a network FO? I know 330 SOs in their second year making close to 200k
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 05:49
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Originally Posted by Ladloy
would a mainline SO make as much as a network FO? I know 330 SOs in their second year making close to 200k
The few 330 SOs I know used to say the same thing. When they joined they said the pay was actually pretty crap until year 4... and now there's a B scale or C scale or whatever it is.

You could probably fly your ass off and hide on layovers to save all your allowances and dress up the pay that way, but 200k as a year 2 SO nowadays sounds more the exception than the norm.

If life is OZ then find a job that works for you. If you want money go to the US. Don't get caught in the middle ground of being miserable with your choice though.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 06:20
  #1236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
No worries, then I look forward to every Network pilot starting out as SO’s just like every other mainline pilot has had to.

The point I’m trying to make is more that if they want equal pay, then they to can get in line and wait 15-20 years to get their commands back.

I have no problem with a good boost in the rate at Network, and I agree it’ll lift all other salaries. But you’re kidding yourselves if you think you should get equal pay.
Sitting in the back seat sounds hard.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 06:24
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Originally Posted by Ladloy
would a mainline SO make as much as a network FO? I know 330 SOs in their second year making close to 200k
The question is does a Network FO make as much as a Mainline SO.

Pretty sure most if not all Perth 787 SOs are projecting around 190k this FY from what I’ve been been told.

Go to work two, or three times a month and see London, Rome, Hong Kong, NYC, LA, SFO etc. Ten days off at a time. Not getting up at 3am multiple times per week to fly high vis into the mines.

How are you even comparing the two? Apples vs **** sandwiches.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 06:44
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Originally Posted by soseg
Go to work two, or three times a month and see London, Rome, Hong Kong, NYC, LA, SFO etc. Ten days off at a time. Not getting up at 3am multiple times per week to fly high vis into the mines.

How are you even comparing the two? Apples vs **** sandwiches.
To some people, the propect of flying through the night with days away from home at a time on a B or C scale deal with the only way out being a clapped out 73 is an equally **** sandwich.

Network deserve everyones support, but its thier EBA and what they want that matters. Not what the rest of us think they should want.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 06:59
  #1239 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lapon
Network deserve everyones support, but its thier EBA and what they want that matters. Not what the rest of us think they should want.
Respect is earned. Voting yes to do overtime at half pay does not deserve our respect.

Many pilots there aren’t fully aware of the pay difference between Network and other companies such as mainline. Many I have spoken to had no idea what we earn across the hallway. Genuinely surprised when I told them.

I guess the industry as a whole should shut up, sit back and let them, and their sub 1000hr pilots who through no fault of their own, don’t know much better, and let them get exploited because they think it’s good enough?

You will find their fleet is in much worse state than the 737s. Stop pretending the 737 is that much of a horror to fly even for an extra 100k a year.
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Old 22nd Dec 2023, 07:02
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Originally Posted by morno
No worries, then I look forward to every Network pilot starting out as SO’s just like every other mainline pilot has had to.

The point I’m trying to make is more that if they want equal pay, then they to can get in line and wait 15-20 years to get their commands back.

I have no problem with a good boost in the rate at Network, and I agree it’ll lift all other salaries. But you’re kidding yourselves if you think you should get equal pay.
Morno you are delusional. A network pilot doesn’t get the opportunities to fly multiple different aircraft types, domestically and are the globe in what is truly a career airline. They get to fly to mine sites and back, and for that they deserve the same rate as other narrow body pilots in the group. You need to get off your high horse champ. What is it with the your feelings of grandeur….
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