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Old 12th Oct 2023, 00:10
  #541 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShandywithSugar
In communications sent to crew , it appears the "take it or leave it" stance held by the AFAP isn't going down well with EB.

Perhaps a perusal of recent projects such as Sunrise (A350) or Winton (A321) or A220 might be prudent as they were take it or leave it....
From what I hear, the irony here is that QF's (NAA) stance from the start has been to 'Take it or Leave it' on their offer: 2 x opposing 'Take it or Leave it's' = 90%+ Down Vote plus further PIA

But hey...what does the Perth refueler really know...

Last edited by RealSatoshi; 12th Oct 2023 at 05:17.
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 00:19
  #542 (permalink)  
 
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VH is failing dismally at her first opportunity to show a new approach to staff relations.
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 00:59
  #543 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brokenagain
VH is failing dismally at her first opportunity to show a new approach to staff relations.
RG and AJ have on numerous occasions, after announcing that she would become CEO, attributed the $1.0 Billion cost-cutting exercise during the pandemic as being her achievement.

Financial Review - 2 May 2023
"This was the reality that confronted Vanessa Hudson as Qantas chief financial officer in April 2020. And it’s her work in helping to guide Qantas through that storm – raising equity and debt to shore up the group’s balance sheet, selling assets, slashing costs and readying for eventual recovery – that helped her win the race to replace Alan Joyce as Qantas chief executive."

Fair to say that current (and past) staff relations due to ridiculous wage policies would be an entrenched part of her DNA...nothing new to see here

Last edited by RealSatoshi; 12th Oct 2023 at 03:42. Reason: Context
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 01:56
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How can VH say she was responsible for 1.0B cost cutting during Covid when QF wasn't bloody flying? What a c#nt! USELESS!
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 03:16
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Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds
How can VH say she was responsible for 1.0B cost cutting during Covid when QF wasn't bloody flying? What a c#nt! USELESS!
🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷 cheers!
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 05:00
  #546 (permalink)  
 
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What are TiLi’s ?
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 05:18
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Originally Posted by framer
What are TiLi’s ?
TiLi's (now) corrected to read 'Take it or Leave it's'
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 05:18
  #548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by framer
What are TiLi’s ?
I think, it should read TioLi.
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 09:27
  #549 (permalink)  
 
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Proposed EA voted down

Results are out, 90% down vote.
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 09:44
  #550 (permalink)  
 
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So what did they offer Captains and FO's regarding salary.?
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 18:40
  #551 (permalink)  
 
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VH is failing dismally at her first opportunity to show a new approach to staff relations.
She's like a Labor politician, she hasn't had a real job (OK, she probably did before QF), how long has she been at QF? She wouldn't know any other way. She's a bit of a car crash to watch, or maybe she's watching the crash with that perpetually stunned mullet look on her face.
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Old 12th Oct 2023, 20:54
  #552 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Super Ord
Results are out, 90% down vote.
Maybe time that VH actually read the room.
I guess the response from some spokesperson will be
'WE ARE DISAPPOINTED'🤦‍♂️
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 04:14
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Originally Posted by JPJP
The FAA has the opposite approach. They designate airlines as distressed carriers under certain conditions. The operators safety, FRMS and operational performance receive increased surveillance. Here’s a few of the triggers;

- Labor unrest, difficult contract negotiations or work slowdown

- Merger/takeover or change in corporate structure, personnel, or culture

- Competition changes in key routes

- Reductions in the workforce, significant layoffs or retirement buyouts

- Reduction in route structure and/or flight schedules

- Increase in the frequency of complaints against the operator.

Any of those sound familiar ?
That's the approach in a first world aviation nation.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 05:30
  #554 (permalink)  
 
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(IMAGE: GORKIE/PRIVATE MEDIA)Qantas chair Richard Goyder may soon be thinking twice about his hubristic decision to hang around so long as he begins his 12-month valedictory slither out of the airline’s directors’ suite following a litany of failures.

While still juggling time-consuming roles as the chair of Woodside, the Australian Football League, the Western Australian Symphony Orchestra and the Channel 7 Telethon Trust — as well as travelling back and forth between his Perth home and the east coast — Goyder must find a suitable replacement. He must also find directors to replace him and two other “retiring” directors with more airline experience than has been the case at Qantas on his watch.

Meanwhile the company’s new senior management team, under Vanessa Hudson, does not look fit for purpose.

The Transport Workers Union has slammed Goyder’s decision to hang around, saying it was an attempt “to leave in a dignified manner with another year’s pay in his pocket, after presiding over the largest case of illegal sackings in Australian history”.

Richard Goyder’s days as Qantas chairman are numbered — and deservedly so

Read More“A fresh start for Qantas governance requires a new board composition that excludes the CEO and embeds a worker representative to avoid a repeat of the colossal errors of judgement,” TWU Secretary Michael Kaine said. Governance experts agreed with Kaine.

To add to the company’s woes, pilots at Network Aviation, the company’s Perth-based subsidiary (Goyder’s own backyard!) that provides critical charter services to the mining sector as well as passenger services, are expected to vote down the enterprise agreement (EA) they describe as “insulting and unsafe” after talks with management on Wednesday failed. This will lead to further industrial action. Crikey understands two other Qantas east coast subsidiaries, Eastern Airlines and Sunstate, which fly QantasLink planes, are expected to follow suit.

Until the appointment of former American Airlines CEO Doug Parker in May this year, only one of the eight Qantas board members had any airline experience — the other is former Cathay Pacific CEO Tony Tyler. Curiously, staying on is one of corporate Australia’s most immovable time servers: Belinda Hutchinson, who has been on the board since 2018. The rusted-on Sydney University chancellor (since 2013) is also the Australian chair of French arms dealer Thales (since 2015) and has a stint at gambling giant Tabcorp among her variety of board positions — she had to resign as chair of insurer QBE after presiding over a $250 million loss in 2013.

Yet it is not only on the company’s board where real experience is lacking. As Qantas chief executive Vanessa Hudson settles into the cockpit, she appears determined to run the airline with a senior management team almost completely bereft of actual airline operations experience. In fact, just two of the expanded 13-person team (with two still to come) that Hudson announced have any such experience, herself not included. The lack of experience is such that the departing regional chief John Gissing will stay on as a “consultant”.

The operational experience, or lack of it, lies in stark contrast to Virgin Australia and Rex Airlines. At Virgin, seven of the 12 in the leadership team have operational experience, including chief executive Jayne Hrdlicka, who ran Jetstar. Virgin’s strategy and transformation chief Alistair Hartley spent four years running operation strategy and crew logistics at UK’s Virgin Atlantic Airways and five years with Jetstar running strategy and networks. Even Virgin’s loyalty chief Nick Rohrlach ran Jetstar Japan.

Rex boasts the deepest hands-on experience, where five out of nine have operational experience and several of them have actually flown or repaired aeroplanes. For example, Rex’s chief operating officer Neville Howell has over 38 years of aviation experience. He operated the Saab 340 as a first officer and captain for over 18 years for both Hazelton Airlines and Regional Express. Prior to his role as general manager of flight operations (GMFO) and chief pilot, Howell was manager of training and checking and deputy chief pilot. Rex also has — unusually but sensibly — on the management team a deputy general manager of engineering, Mark Burgess, who is a licensed aircraft maintenance engineer with over 30 years of experience, and general manager of flight operations and chief pilot Paul Fisher, who has more than 20 years of experience as first officer and captain.
Read MoreQantas has no pilots or engineers, or anyone that has run an airline, anywhere near its management team. Apart from “consultant” Gissing, who has long run the regional division (and the search for his replacement continues at a time when regional pilots are restless), the closest it gets is the new chief risk officer Andrew Monaghan, who has been COO at QantasLink and Qantas.

But perhaps most depressingly for Qantas staff and customers, new head of Qantas Domestic Markus Svensson has climbed the company ladder with a focus on revenue and marketing.

Svensson previously served as the executive manager of network, revenue management and alliances, where he was responsible for a large part of the commercial strategy for Qantas International and Qantas Domestic.

Qantas International and Freight boss Cam Wallace is a former Air New Zealand sales guy; Jetstar CEO Stephanie Tully a marketer.

Pilots, engineers and former senior staff at Qantas said with such a team that it was, as one pilot put it, “hard to believe the company was running an airline”. The lack of detail shown by Hudson, her legal counsel Andrew Finch and corporate affairs chief Andrew McGinnes at recent Senate hearings bears this out.

Hudson’s team is already showing signs of trouble, with loyalty chief Olivia Wirth taking a board seat at Myer this week. While she remains on her multimillion-dollar Qantas salary, insiders say her position, which must surely have been signed off by Goyder, is now untenable. Core to Myer’s business is its own loyalty scheme which includes Virgin’s Velocity Frequent Flyer program. Hrdlicka must be thrilled. As well, Qantas Loyalty has its own retail aspirations, which it must meet if it is to hit its heady revenue
Read More“With most pilots currently below minimum award wages, and a company proposal that remains the lowest and worst deal in the market, the pilots remain deeply unsatisfied and disenfranchised with the national carrier,” pilots at Network Aviation said.

“Yes, the money is poor, but the deal doesn’t just represent a bad deal financially, it represents a lack of respect in a deeply unhealthy organisation. They do not take any of the many, many issues seriously. Literally not a single market-standard pilot clause is available. But you can tell they try to play dodgy tricks in the negotiations — that is evident in this current proposal. They have a history of this.”

Qantas management is well aware of the impending “no” vote on the EA proposal, expected to be the worst result in Qantas’ history of pilot relations. Management has been sending more emails to pilots akin to saying, in effect, “we don’t care how low the EA vote is, the deal will not improve”.

“With safety and employee satisfaction clearly a low priority at Network Aviation under the Qantas financial business model, the recent waves of resignations has seen our best and most experienced pilots flocking to overseas jobs,” according to Network Aviation pilots. “The recent combined losses represent literally hundreds of years of combined experience, leaving nothing behind but a vacuum.”

That’s certainly something for Goyder to chew on as he ponders whether he has chosen the right person in Hudson to help him resurrect the mess that he and the board have presided over. He should be careful, for what he has wished.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 19:23
  #555 (permalink)  
 
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I would love to know what the mining companies think of this dramatic drain in experience at NAA.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 21:56
  #556 (permalink)  
 
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And further to that how many dispensations are they willing to dole out for inexperienced pilots? You can’t just get cadets in the RHS to work for peanuts nor promote inexperienced pilots to Captain. There would be QF Captains who wouldn’t meet the minimums to fly for Network as PIC. I suggest there is going to be some pretty serious discussions going on at mining HQ about how much risk they are prepared to accept.

The ultimate problem for the Network pilots is that industrial action ends could end up being a own goal as the customers all go to other operators.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 22:09
  #557 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody
And further to that how many dispensations are they willing to dole out for inexperienced pilots? You can’t just get cadets in the RHS to work for peanuts nor promote inexperienced pilots to Captain. There would be QF Captains who wouldn’t meet the minimums to fly for Network as PIC. I suggest there is going to be some pretty serious discussions going on at mining HQ about how much risk they are prepared to accept.

The ultimate problem for the Network pilots is that industrial action ends could end up being a own goal as the customers all go to other operators.
If it’s a QF group airline then there ain’t gunna be no difference.

What are the other options Cobham? Skippers? Alliance?

Whilst I know Straya is a lot different to the USA, it is currently unprecedented times in the USA with pay. Where has it started at the bottom, at the regionals. This should be replicating here with the current issues. USA and Straya not that different when it comes to bringing in outside talent.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 22:59
  #558 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man
(IMAGE: GORKIE/PRIVATE MEDIA)Qantas chair Richard Goyder may soon be thinking twice about his hubristic decision to hang around so long as he begins his 12-month valedictory slither out of the airline’s directors’ suite following a litany of failures.

While still juggling time-consuming roles as the chair of Woodside, the Australian Football League, the Western Australian Symphony Orchestra and the Channel 7 Telethon Trust — as well as travelling back and forth between his Perth home and the east coast — Goyder must find a suitable replacement. He must also find directors to replace him and two other “retiring” directors with more airline experience than has been the case at Qantas on his watch.

Meanwhile the company’s new senior management team, under Vanessa Hudson, does not look fit for purpose.

The Transport Workers Union has slammed Goyder’s decision to hang around, saying it was an attempt “to leave in a dignified manner with another year’s pay in his pocket, after presiding over the largest case of illegal sackings in Australian history”.

Richard Goyder’s days as Qantas chairman are numbered — and deservedly so

Read More“A fresh start for Qantas governance requires a new board composition that excludes the CEO and embeds a worker representative to avoid a repeat of the colossal errors of judgement,” TWU Secretary Michael Kaine said. Governance experts agreed with Kaine.

To add to the company’s woes, pilots at Network Aviation, the company’s Perth-based subsidiary (Goyder’s own backyard!) that provides critical charter services to the mining sector as well as passenger services, are expected to vote down the enterprise agreement (EA) they describe as “insulting and unsafe” after talks with management on Wednesday failed. This will lead to further industrial action. Crikey understands two other Qantas east coast subsidiaries, Eastern Airlines and Sunstate, which fly QantasLink planes, are expected to follow suit.

Until the appointment of former American Airlines CEO Doug Parker in May this year, only one of the eight Qantas board members had any airline experience — the other is former Cathay Pacific CEO Tony Tyler. Curiously, staying on is one of corporate Australia’s most immovable time servers: Belinda Hutchinson, who has been on the board since 2018. The rusted-on Sydney University chancellor (since 2013) is also the Australian chair of French arms dealer Thales (since 2015) and has a stint at gambling giant Tabcorp among her variety of board positions — she had to resign as chair of insurer QBE after presiding over a $250 million loss in 2013.

Yet it is not only on the company’s board where real experience is lacking. As Qantas chief executive Vanessa Hudson settles into the cockpit, she appears determined to run the airline with a senior management team almost completely bereft of actual airline operations experience. In fact, just two of the expanded 13-person team (with two still to come) that Hudson announced have any such experience, herself not included. The lack of experience is such that the departing regional chief John Gissing will stay on as a “consultant”.

The operational experience, or lack of it, lies in stark contrast to Virgin Australia and Rex Airlines. At Virgin, seven of the 12 in the leadership team have operational experience, including chief executive Jayne Hrdlicka, who ran Jetstar. Virgin’s strategy and transformation chief Alistair Hartley spent four years running operation strategy and crew logistics at UK’s Virgin Atlantic Airways and five years with Jetstar running strategy and networks. Even Virgin’s loyalty chief Nick Rohrlach ran Jetstar Japan.

Rex boasts the deepest hands-on experience, where five out of nine have operational experience and several of them have actually flown or repaired aeroplanes. For example, Rex’s chief operating officer Neville Howell has over 38 years of aviation experience. He operated the Saab 340 as a first officer and captain for over 18 years for both Hazelton Airlines and Regional Express. Prior to his role as general manager of flight operations (GMFO) and chief pilot, Howell was manager of training and checking and deputy chief pilot. Rex also has — unusually but sensibly — on the management team a deputy general manager of engineering, Mark Burgess, who is a licensed aircraft maintenance engineer with over 30 years of experience, and general manager of flight operations and chief pilot Paul Fisher, who has more than 20 years of experience as first officer and captain.
Read MoreQantas has no pilots or engineers, or anyone that has run an airline, anywhere near its management team. Apart from “consultant” Gissing, who has long run the regional division (and the search for his replacement continues at a time when regional pilots are restless), the closest it gets is the new chief risk officer Andrew Monaghan, who has been COO at QantasLink and Qantas.

But perhaps most depressingly for Qantas staff and customers, new head of Qantas Domestic Markus Svensson has climbed the company ladder with a focus on revenue and marketing.

Svensson previously served as the executive manager of network, revenue management and alliances, where he was responsible for a large part of the commercial strategy for Qantas International and Qantas Domestic.

Qantas International and Freight boss Cam Wallace is a former Air New Zealand sales guy; Jetstar CEO Stephanie Tully a marketer.

Pilots, engineers and former senior staff at Qantas said with such a team that it was, as one pilot put it, “hard to believe the company was running an airline”. The lack of detail shown by Hudson, her legal counsel Andrew Finch and corporate affairs chief Andrew McGinnes at recent Senate hearings bears this out.

Hudson’s team is already showing signs of trouble, with loyalty chief Olivia Wirth taking a board seat at Myer this week. While she remains on her multimillion-dollar Qantas salary, insiders say her position, which must surely have been signed off by Goyder, is now untenable. Core to Myer’s business is its own loyalty scheme which includes Virgin’s Velocity Frequent Flyer program. Hrdlicka must be thrilled. As well, Qantas Loyalty has its own retail aspirations, which it must meet if it is to hit its heady revenue
Read More“With most pilots currently below minimum award wages, and a company proposal that remains the lowest and worst deal in the market, the pilots remain deeply unsatisfied and disenfranchised with the national carrier,” pilots at Network Aviation said.

“Yes, the money is poor, but the deal doesn’t just represent a bad deal financially, it represents a lack of respect in a deeply unhealthy organisation. They do not take any of the many, many issues seriously. Literally not a single market-standard pilot clause is available. But you can tell they try to play dodgy tricks in the negotiations — that is evident in this current proposal. They have a history of this.”

Qantas management is well aware of the impending “no” vote on the EA proposal, expected to be the worst result in Qantas’ history of pilot relations. Management has been sending more emails to pilots akin to saying, in effect, “we don’t care how low the EA vote is, the deal will not improve”.

“With safety and employee satisfaction clearly a low priority at Network Aviation under the Qantas financial business model, the recent waves of resignations has seen our best and most experienced pilots flocking to overseas jobs,” according to Network Aviation pilots. “The recent combined losses represent literally hundreds of years of combined experience, leaving nothing behind but a vacuum.”

That’s certainly something for Goyder to chew on as he ponders whether he has chosen the right person in Hudson to help him resurrect the mess that he and the board have presided over. He should be careful, for what he has wished.
But on the metric of executive and Board remuneration, Qantas nails it.
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 23:23
  #559 (permalink)  
 
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If it’s a QF group airline then there ain’t gunna be no difference.
Do QF Group have some exemption from all the hour requirements every other airline has?? A Chairman's lounge deal?
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Old 13th Oct 2023, 23:35
  #560 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody
Do QF Group have some exemption from all the hour requirements every other airline has?? A Chairman's lounge deal?
I think we are on the same page. With the pissedoffness amongst the QF group my thoughts would be that no matter which one was tasked it will end up in the same pile. That’s if you could move a group onto a diff operation, the cost alone!

NA is setting a precedent, I read somewhere Eastern next for action? Who’s next? Surely this is going to cost QF millions. What the board and management do not seem to understand is that happy crew maketh you money. Why are they so apt to screw the crew? Happy pilots are more efficient pilots, yadda yadda yadda.

Look at USA regional level sign on bonus and new pay scales up to AA UA DL top pay scales, it’s all relative. Why can’t Straya be similar?
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