QF/Finnair A330 Wetlease
What could be wrong with having 10 x 380s not all flying and the average age 15 years, 25 x 330s not all of which fly internationally the average age 16 years and 14 x 787s average age 5 years. To put icing on the cake your biggest money spinner in which the government has provided cover for you and that’s the pacific is been taken over by Delta, United , American with Air Canada and Hawaiian helping and then you have become irrelevant to Europe with only two flights a day to London and now the Chinese carriers are back , the middle eastern carriers have probably 10 times your weekly flights and then Singair and Cathay as well. Lastly let’s look at Japan which you are desperately trying to wrestle back from ANA and JAL both have more convenient flights with better seats and service. Yes IMO all the chickens are coming home to roost while you walk off into the sunset with the $180 million you have received during your reign.
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I hope that the lemmings currently paying $6.94/share for QF are still as keen on 26/08/23. After that there is no value > $3.00* which realistically reflects the market value of the airline as it is currently equipped and crewed.
*a number which was rectally derived. Your actual value may vary.
*a number which was rectally derived. Your actual value may vary.
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Proper crew rest facilities involve a dedicated quiet area with horizontal bunks, I'm not sure that a couple of curtained off seat rows in the passenger cabin meet the requirements though they are better than nothing.
During the low point of COVID, Singapore Airlines was already planning for the recovery even though at the time there was no sign of it on the horizon. Staff were kept current and aircraft ticking over, a strategy was in place to meet demand once it bounced back. As a result they were first out of the starting gate and able to ramp up quickly as travel demand improved.
Even at the worst of they pandemic they were more use to Australians needing to get home than QF were.
During the low point of COVID, Singapore Airlines was already planning for the recovery even though at the time there was no sign of it on the horizon. Staff were kept current and aircraft ticking over, a strategy was in place to meet demand once it bounced back. As a result they were first out of the starting gate and able to ramp up quickly as travel demand improved.
Even at the worst of they pandemic they were more use to Australians needing to get home than QF were.
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Helps when you’re owned by the government, who can give you money or underwrite a capital raising to the tune of $21 Billion AUD.
Sure Qantas got some handouts too but nothing remotely in that league.
Not exactly an even playing field this international aviation game.
$19B Sing Air rescue package
Sure Qantas got some handouts too but nothing remotely in that league.
Not exactly an even playing field this international aviation game.
$19B Sing Air rescue package
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Helps when you’re owned by the government, who can give you money or underwrite a capital raising to the tune of $21 Billion AUD.
Sure Qantas got some handouts too but nothing remotely in that league.
Not exactly an even playing field this international aviation game.
$19B Sing Air rescue package
Sure Qantas got some handouts too but nothing remotely in that league.
Not exactly an even playing field this international aviation game.
$19B Sing Air rescue package
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BA has been tempoarily wet leasing 4/6 Finnair A320 for a couple of years now due to lack of capacity and pilots. New B787-10 /A350 and A320/321 NEO are continuing to be delivered.
A good airline and great passenger product.
Quite a shortage of crew beginning to show. BA advertising for Type rated A320 crew. Virgin Atlantic for B787/A330/350, not much success so far. Virgin only after experienced pilots as many routes operated with 2 flight crew. Neither airline employ S/Os as fully trained P2s required for many two pilot routes. Same for BA as all types including A380 operate two pilot routes.
BA pay is based on Company Seniority not by type flown, simplifying double training by not requiring to fly the largest type for top pay.
BA have recruited experienced pilots in the last few years directly as P2 on B777/787/and A380.All pilots furloughed due to Covid related early B747-400 retirement, are now back on flying duties on the various fleet types.
A good airline and great passenger product.
Quite a shortage of crew beginning to show. BA advertising for Type rated A320 crew. Virgin Atlantic for B787/A330/350, not much success so far. Virgin only after experienced pilots as many routes operated with 2 flight crew. Neither airline employ S/Os as fully trained P2s required for many two pilot routes. Same for BA as all types including A380 operate two pilot routes.
BA pay is based on Company Seniority not by type flown, simplifying double training by not requiring to fly the largest type for top pay.
BA have recruited experienced pilots in the last few years directly as P2 on B777/787/and A380.All pilots furloughed due to Covid related early B747-400 retirement, are now back on flying duties on the various fleet types.
The last thing is population growth . 700,000 immigrants by the end of next year and probably 2.5 million by 2030 PLUS 2031 Brisbane Olympics and guess who has no plan for growth that we know of between now and then. Betting the house on 2 direct services a day to London and I guess New York using 238 seats while other carriers have approx 350 seats so they need a huge premium to pay for the additional fuel use plus lower capacity and if it doesn’t work you have a white elephant . As aptly described above a cluster f##k of the first order.
Last edited by dragon man; 21st May 2023 at 10:20.
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Dragon Man, you are so clever. You are right on to the issues and you know all of the answers.
They should put you on the board. You would then be able to demonstrate your ethics by not accepting the obscene bonuses. You would be able to sort them out on the error of their ways.
I look forward to a Qantas which is guided by your wisdom.
They should put you on the board. You would then be able to demonstrate your ethics by not accepting the obscene bonuses. You would be able to sort them out on the error of their ways.
I look forward to a Qantas which is guided by your wisdom.
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Dragon Man, you are so clever. You are right on to the issues and you know all of the answers.
They should put you on the board. You would then be able to demonstrate your ethics by not accepting the obscene bonuses. You would be able to sort them out on the error of their ways.
I look forward to a Qantas which is guided by your wisdom.
They should put you on the board. You would then be able to demonstrate your ethics by not accepting the obscene bonuses. You would be able to sort them out on the error of their ways.
I look forward to a Qantas which is guided by your wisdom.
And you show your ignorance by not even knowing that non executive board members do not receive any bonuses let alone obscene ones and are obviously quite comfortable with wet leases from foreign carriers.
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The last thing is population growth . 700,000 immigrants by the end of next year and probably 2.5 million by 2030 PLUS 2031 Brisbane Olympics and guess who has no plan for growth that we know of between now and then. Betting the house on 2 direct services a day to London and I guess New York using 238 seats while other carriers have approx 350 seats so they need a huge premium to pay for the additional fuel use plus lower capacity and if it doesn’t work you have a white elephant . As aptly described above a cluster f##k of the first order.
GOLD MEDAL WINNING ARTICLERear Window 
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Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce fronted a press conference on Friday to turn the first sod on a new pilot training centre in Sydney’s St Peters opening early next year. While Qantas and Jetstar pilots will be trained there, the centre will be operated by Canadian training company CAE, which will also own the simulators.
It is easily forgotten that construction was underway on Qantas’ new $165 million flight training centre adjacent to its Mascot headquarters after the existing, company-owned centre was compulsorily acquired by the NSW government for the Sydney Gateway road project.
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce. There may need to be a new procedure entered in the Qantas emergency management plan entitled “When the CEO denounces the blinding truth as a lie”. Jean Chung In 2020, when COVID hit, Joyce halted construction, wrote off the sunk costs and sold the land for $100 million. Qantas spent many millions relocating its flight sims interstate and since then, the company has been sending its Sydney-based pilots, at great expense, to train in Melbourne.
The timing of Joyce’s pilot training announcement was, in trademark Qantas fashion, too smart by half. It was so nakedly designed to compensate for the anticipated anger of his pilots at Joyce’s other news that day: that Qantas will bolster its international network by wet leasing – which means leasing a plane with a crew attached – two A330 aircraft from Finnair.
Qantas pilots (and cabin crew) are rightly outraged because Qantas has only just retired two of its own A330s from the passenger fleet and handed them to Qantas Freight.
“Those aircraft were domestic aircraft that were perfect for converting into freighters,” Joyce claimed on Friday.
This is yet another extraordinary statement by Joyce, in a budding oeuvre of them.
As he well knows, all Qantas A330s ply a mix of domestic and international routes. In the final month those two Qantas A330s flew as passenger aircraft, they operated to Auckland, Bali, Jakarta and Singapore.
Joyce is attempting to create a completely false distinction between so-called “domestic” A330s he’s erased and the Asian A330 routes he’s now sub-contracting to Finnair. Niko, Mikael and Johannes are preparing for their three-year working holiday in Bangkok while Alan is on Redbubble ordering gigantic empennage magnets printed with the Qantas livery.
The five-year Finnair deal converts to a dry lease – so operated by Qantas crew – for its second half. Either way, Joyce will be long gone.
“This doesn’t lose a single Australian job,” Joyce declared. “They are positive for the creation of jobs and anyone who says anything else is just completely wrong.”
Anyone who says bussing in pilots and flight attendants from offshore will cost Australian jobs is just plain wrong! Woah. There is a lot going on there, there really is. There may need to be a new procedure entered in the Qantas emergency management plan entitled “When the CEO denounces the blinding truth as a lie”.
Who else wants to live in Alan’s world? He should Airbnb rooms in his house of cognitive distortion. In this magical palace, put on your enchanted spectacles and you, too, can inhabit a universe where anyone who says anything else is completely wrong.
“The other thing it does [is] it adds more capacity internationally,” Joyce continued. “We’re getting a lot of queries from customers, ‘When are airfares going to normalise?’, and these are the ways you normalise airfares. You get these aircraft and capacity back in the air so airfares start coming down.”
Here, Joyce is spritzing the weary passenger with a touch of refreshing cabin spray. I’m normalising situations for you. Airfares will come down now. I’m not just doing what a rational businessperson would do, trying to exploit voracious demand, I’m sliding down the optimisation curve, all for you. I’m leaving soon, dear customer, but not until you love me.
The patterns of Joyce’s approval-seeking are so consistent. Here he is, hoping we’ll taste a little bit of mint in our last bite of the **** sandwich, and we’ll all remember him as Joycey the great competition champion, the frequent flyer’s friend. It’s unreal.
Of course, the real issue here is not the number of Australian jobs forgone by dint of two planes crewed by Helsinki hardbodies. The real issue is why Qantas even needs them.
The real issue is Joyce’s premeditated dereliction of widebody fleet renewal. It is his cancellation of 40 firm Boeing 787s and eight A380s, both orders he inherited. It is Joyce’s failure to order any other widebody aircraft until last year, when he ordered 12 A350s that won’t start arriving until FY26, long after his final tranche of bonus shareshave vested.
Joyce and the Qantas board have not placed any order for the replacement of its 26 dog-tired A330 aircraft, the backbone of the Asia network, whose average age is now 16.5 years (six of them have already turned 20). Their failure to do so has created a looming capability gap. Even if Qantas makes an order this year, the first of any replacements will not arrive for several years.
Blind Freddy can see that these decisions by Joyce have cost thousands of Australian jobs and significantly reduced Qantas’ international capacity; and that he made almost all of them well before COVID.
The only real normalisation coming for Qantas is at the AGM in November, when they put Alan in his straitjacket and wheel him out of there. The planes will keep flying, just, but the mad hot takes will never be the same.
Alan Joyce’s Helsinki final act
Joe AstonColumnistMay 22, 2023 – 7.44pmSave
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Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce fronted a press conference on Friday to turn the first sod on a new pilot training centre in Sydney’s St Peters opening early next year. While Qantas and Jetstar pilots will be trained there, the centre will be operated by Canadian training company CAE, which will also own the simulators.
It is easily forgotten that construction was underway on Qantas’ new $165 million flight training centre adjacent to its Mascot headquarters after the existing, company-owned centre was compulsorily acquired by the NSW government for the Sydney Gateway road project.
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce. There may need to be a new procedure entered in the Qantas emergency management plan entitled “When the CEO denounces the blinding truth as a lie”. Jean Chung In 2020, when COVID hit, Joyce halted construction, wrote off the sunk costs and sold the land for $100 million. Qantas spent many millions relocating its flight sims interstate and since then, the company has been sending its Sydney-based pilots, at great expense, to train in Melbourne.The timing of Joyce’s pilot training announcement was, in trademark Qantas fashion, too smart by half. It was so nakedly designed to compensate for the anticipated anger of his pilots at Joyce’s other news that day: that Qantas will bolster its international network by wet leasing – which means leasing a plane with a crew attached – two A330 aircraft from Finnair.
Qantas pilots (and cabin crew) are rightly outraged because Qantas has only just retired two of its own A330s from the passenger fleet and handed them to Qantas Freight.
“Those aircraft were domestic aircraft that were perfect for converting into freighters,” Joyce claimed on Friday.
This is yet another extraordinary statement by Joyce, in a budding oeuvre of them.
As he well knows, all Qantas A330s ply a mix of domestic and international routes. In the final month those two Qantas A330s flew as passenger aircraft, they operated to Auckland, Bali, Jakarta and Singapore.
Joyce is attempting to create a completely false distinction between so-called “domestic” A330s he’s erased and the Asian A330 routes he’s now sub-contracting to Finnair. Niko, Mikael and Johannes are preparing for their three-year working holiday in Bangkok while Alan is on Redbubble ordering gigantic empennage magnets printed with the Qantas livery.
The five-year Finnair deal converts to a dry lease – so operated by Qantas crew – for its second half. Either way, Joyce will be long gone.
“This doesn’t lose a single Australian job,” Joyce declared. “They are positive for the creation of jobs and anyone who says anything else is just completely wrong.”
Anyone who says bussing in pilots and flight attendants from offshore will cost Australian jobs is just plain wrong! Woah. There is a lot going on there, there really is. There may need to be a new procedure entered in the Qantas emergency management plan entitled “When the CEO denounces the blinding truth as a lie”.
Who else wants to live in Alan’s world? He should Airbnb rooms in his house of cognitive distortion. In this magical palace, put on your enchanted spectacles and you, too, can inhabit a universe where anyone who says anything else is completely wrong.
“The other thing it does [is] it adds more capacity internationally,” Joyce continued. “We’re getting a lot of queries from customers, ‘When are airfares going to normalise?’, and these are the ways you normalise airfares. You get these aircraft and capacity back in the air so airfares start coming down.”
Here, Joyce is spritzing the weary passenger with a touch of refreshing cabin spray. I’m normalising situations for you. Airfares will come down now. I’m not just doing what a rational businessperson would do, trying to exploit voracious demand, I’m sliding down the optimisation curve, all for you. I’m leaving soon, dear customer, but not until you love me.
The patterns of Joyce’s approval-seeking are so consistent. Here he is, hoping we’ll taste a little bit of mint in our last bite of the **** sandwich, and we’ll all remember him as Joycey the great competition champion, the frequent flyer’s friend. It’s unreal.
Of course, the real issue here is not the number of Australian jobs forgone by dint of two planes crewed by Helsinki hardbodies. The real issue is why Qantas even needs them.
The real issue is Joyce’s premeditated dereliction of widebody fleet renewal. It is his cancellation of 40 firm Boeing 787s and eight A380s, both orders he inherited. It is Joyce’s failure to order any other widebody aircraft until last year, when he ordered 12 A350s that won’t start arriving until FY26, long after his final tranche of bonus shareshave vested.
Joyce and the Qantas board have not placed any order for the replacement of its 26 dog-tired A330 aircraft, the backbone of the Asia network, whose average age is now 16.5 years (six of them have already turned 20). Their failure to do so has created a looming capability gap. Even if Qantas makes an order this year, the first of any replacements will not arrive for several years.
Blind Freddy can see that these decisions by Joyce have cost thousands of Australian jobs and significantly reduced Qantas’ international capacity; and that he made almost all of them well before COVID.
The only real normalisation coming for Qantas is at the AGM in November, when they put Alan in his straitjacket and wheel him out of there. The planes will keep flying, just, but the mad hot takes will never be the same.
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I hope that the lemmings currently paying $6.94/share for QF are still as keen on 26/08/23. After that there is no value > $3.00* which realistically reflects the market value of the airline as it is currently equipped and crewed.
*a number which was rectally derived. Your actual value may vary.
*a number which was rectally derived. Your actual value may vary.
Feel free to put me in touch with anyone who’s paying $6.94. I might sell a few of the shares I bought for $4 something…
There is a stark difference between geting paid 'X' salary and actually earning it. That seems to be lost on some on this forum.
Feeding the chooks in crewrest on a 15 hour sector and not sitting in a control seat below FL200 vs doing 4 domestic sectors with 3 aircraft swaps is the difference between getting paid and earning.
Feeding the chooks in crewrest on a 15 hour sector and not sitting in a control seat below FL200 vs doing 4 domestic sectors with 3 aircraft swaps is the difference between getting paid and earning.
Last edited by The Banjo; 22nd May 2023 at 13:43.
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