Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Sydney Fog Sunday.

Old 23rd Mar 2023, 02:41
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: The Rio
Posts: 254
Received 65 Likes on 45 Posts
I think the reviews on Seek for these jobs tell you all you need to know about the current quality of Met products...

"Management is terrible. They're far more interested in politics and empire building. The core function of the organisation seems to be completely misunderstood by management as they have more IT staff than any other and those IT staff are generally inexperienced and incompetent, they've created an environment where actual meteorological products that could would be beneficial to the Australian public will never see the light of day."
10JQKA is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2023, 10:31
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: .
Posts: 760
Received 29 Likes on 9 Posts
BOM forecasts are all done out of a city highrise building in MEL and BNE these days, thats only if the forcaster isn't working from home.
puff is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2023, 01:11
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 57
Posts: 3,150
Received 548 Likes on 154 Posts
Thanks for the info about where the forecasters are located. I had been taught and believed that if there was a trend function then there was literally a meteorologist on the ground at that port.
BOM forecasts are all done out of a city highrise building in MEL and BNE these days, thats only if the forcaster isn't working from home.
Please tell me you are joking about the ‘working from home’?
I can see the next accident report “ The failure to divert earlier can be traced to the failure to update the forecast which in turn was due to distraction. The primary cause of the distraction being an argument the forecaster was having with their seven year old about how much Nintendo Switch time was appropriate while off school sick.”
framer is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2023, 01:36
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 609
Received 93 Likes on 71 Posts
Originally Posted by framer
Please tell me you are joking about the ‘working from home’?
I can see the next accident report “ The failure to divert earlier can be traced to the failure to update the forecast which in turn was due to distraction. The primary cause of the distraction being an argument the forecaster was having with their seven year old about how much Nintendo Switch time was appropriate while off school sick.”
Actually I'd see "working from home" as a plus.. at least they then have a window to look out of to see that it's raining and their forecast of CAVOK might require a TAF AMD.

AFAIK, met forecaster is the only job in the world where you get paid to be wrong. :-)
PiperCameron is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2023, 03:56
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Hot zone
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Congratulations to the PIC that landed on 16L just as it got to it's worst at 1000 RVR, taxied off the runway at 23kts in the sharp turn, then taxied up behind a waiting Jet that surprised him as it suddenly appeared out of the fog, stopped, pulled out his phone and took a photo so he could quickly put it on social media as soon as the park brake was set. Australian aviators at their finest.
Maisk Rotum is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2023, 05:01
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 289
Received 144 Likes on 40 Posts
Originally Posted by Maisk Rotum
Congratulations to the PIC that landed on 16L just as it got to it's worst at 1000 RVR, taxied off the runway at 23kts in the sharp turn, then taxied up behind a waiting Jet that surprised him as it suddenly appeared out of the fog, stopped, pulled out his phone and took a photo so he could quickly put it on social media as soon as the park brake was set. Australian aviators at their finest.
You know all this how?
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2023, 08:12
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 57
Posts: 3,150
Received 548 Likes on 154 Posts
You know all this how?
Maisk was the f/o
​​​​​​​
framer is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2023, 06:38
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The third world
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by framer
Sorry to bang on about it but does that mean there is no meteorologist on the ground at Mascot for the purpose of providing trend information to the fancy new TAF3 ‘s?
Crazy if true.

Yes unfortunately it’s true, as someone who worked with the Sydney MET unit for many years I can tell you their Met knowledge and understanding of the local conditions were light years ahead of what we are suffering with now. They were closed down around the start of COVID, I believe it cost the airlines 2 million a year between them to fund the unit, I can assure you it’s now costed them 10 times more per year now and has to be one of the greatest own goals in aviation! People forget there existence came about because many years ago people realised the a better service was required. Unfortunately the ones who pushed for their closure didn’t have the slightest idea what they did or how import they were. The constant TAF amends with the back dating of actual weather has made the whole point of looking at the forecast a waste of time. I suggest you put on a lot of extra fuel these days!
jj232 is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2023, 07:04
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,948
Received 483 Likes on 268 Posts
Originally Posted by jj232
Yes unfortunately it’s true, as someone who worked with the Sydney MET unit for many years I can tell you their Met knowledge and understanding of the local conditions were light years ahead of what we are suffering with now. They were closed down around the start of COVID, I believe it cost the airlines 2 million a year between them to fund the unit, I can assure you it’s now costed them 10 times more per year now and has to be one of the greatest own goals in aviation! People forget there existence came about because many years ago people realised the a better service was required. Unfortunately the ones who pushed for their closure didn’t have the slightest idea what they did or how import they were. The constant TAF amends with the back dating of actual weather has made the whole point of looking at the forecast a waste of time. I suggest you put on a lot of extra fuel these days!
Hmm, $2mil a year vs how many tens of millions in fuel, displacement and re accommodating passengers after a diversion due low fuel state. I bet the accountants said "we can save $2million, but diversions are unknown costs until they happens o we can't account for them". Bit like, " staff cost to much screw down labor costs, retraining more cant cost that much, and who cares if we have to park a few planes, the customers will understand...." "and you cant show me a spreadsheet on how much experienced staff save us so we'll just say they don't and greens will be able to do it all the same..."
43Inches is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2023, 23:09
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 57
Posts: 3,150
Received 548 Likes on 154 Posts
What’s the formal process for reporting when a TAF is inaccurate? I think as pilots we need to use both the individual company reporting systems in parallel with a reporting system direct to either CASA or the BOM to build data on inaccuracies.
framer is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 26th Mar 2023, 06:01
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The third world
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by DROPS
This is so sad. It is the type of decision making happening everywhere thanks to the latest cohort of "smartest guys in the room".

​​​​​​Signing off on risks to obtain "efficiency dividends" in the short term, knowing they will have moved on before the risk is realised (most of the time). It is endemic in what we're once trusted companies and organisations.
I can assure you it’s costing the airlines a small fortune no longer having SAMU( Sydney aviation met unit) in existence. Unfortunately in the ATC world we have gone backwards by about 20 years due to decisions made during COVID. No doubt in the future some bright spark will suggest to their boss what a great idea it would be to have an embedded met unit at major airports and the wheel will turn again, in the meantime we are all left trying to make the best of the current situation. Will be interesting too see what the ATSB have to say about the current met system when they investigate the QFA 28 diversion.
jj232 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 06:02
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: You live where
Posts: 716
Received 74 Likes on 45 Posts
Originally Posted by framer
What’s the formal process for reporting when a TAF is inaccurate? I think as pilots we need to use both the individual company reporting systems in parallel with a reporting system direct to either CASA or the BOM to build data on inaccuracies.
I can think of 3 possible reports to ATSB.

Occurrence Notification – Aviation
Select Other as the Event Type, and describe all details about the event, including precursors and consequences.

REPCON - voluntary and confidential reporting of aviation safety concerns.

Aviation Self Reporting Scheme


Bureau of Meteorology seeks feedback BoM feedback
missy is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 06:14
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Doesn't SYD have Cat III facilities yet, or is it still stuck in the 1950's?
TopBunk is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 10:42
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: You live where
Posts: 716
Received 74 Likes on 45 Posts
Originally Posted by TopBunk
Doesn't SYD have Cat III facilities yet, or is it still stuck in the 1950's?

Originally Posted by DROPS
What? Spend money on something useful? How does that make a profit?
CAT II, and to give credit where credit is due then SACL and in particular KA has done a good job in improving facilities, dragging AsA kicking and screaming from the 1950's.

Increased spacing is required for CAT II (and CAT III) approaches so with the same number of aircraft the holding will blow out, press the General Holding button. Airlines favour a higher acceptance rate and then take their chances. The issue was unforecast fog and then the impact on the movement rate, with or without LVP being implemented.

missy is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2023, 22:48
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 354
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
"The Bureau" have an open survey for their Aviation products. Go here and tell them what you think.
717tech is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 00:20
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The third world
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Arrival only spacing Cat II is 10 NM, if there’s a departure to get away it goes to 15NM. Obviously you don’t want to go into Cat II OPS unless it’s really required. In Sydney there’s not too many days a year where it would be needed, and as for CAT III I don’t think it’s ever required.
jj232 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2023, 23:36
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: By the sea
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 3 Posts
50% of arrivals probably won't have LVO. How many of them will do an approach to take a look? No idea. Approach ban seems to thin the traffic out in Europe/India where this happens more than once a year.
pill is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2023, 04:35
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 1,201
Received 35 Likes on 19 Posts
Originally Posted by pill
50% of arrivals probably won't have LVO. How many of them will do an approach to take a look? No idea. Approach ban seems to thin the traffic out in Europe/India where this happens more than once a year.
yep, you'll still hold behind a saab
maggot is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2023, 03:40
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
On inspecting the BOM website l see they have their priorities right…indigenous weather forecasting! Woke at last
frangatang is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2023, 22:25
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The third world
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Yesterday afternoon in SYD was yet again another perfect example this system is broke, went to 25 only at around 1700L for about an hour and a half! Nowhere on any of the hundred TAF amends yesterday was there any indication of a 30kt westerly for an hour or so. Happened smack band in the middle of the evening burst and caused chaos! Funny enough the TAF amends went silent for a couple of hours, not even a speci!
jj232 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.