Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Another day, another QF incident

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Another day, another QF incident

Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:01
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 789
Received 71 Likes on 39 Posts
Originally Posted by unobtanium
ABC at its best
​​​​​​​That would be the 747 that has 2 engines,new addition to the fleet🤣
blubak is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:06
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,355
Received 466 Likes on 252 Posts
Originally Posted by unobtanium
ABC at its best
That quote is not what is written in the article
dr dre is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:17
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,355
Received 466 Likes on 252 Posts
Originally Posted by Eclan
Turning back for paperwork? Why not just get approval over ACARS to sign it yourself and continue? The jet doesn't know if it's signed off or not. Neither does the weather. Must've been a cadet...
Discover that EDTO (what ETOPS is now) hasnít been signed off in the tech log by engineering and you canít proceed, regardless of the background of the pilot. Pulling a dodgy and just continuing is going to land the pilots in hot water.
dr dre is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:32
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Doomadgee
Posts: 287
Received 55 Likes on 30 Posts
Is this for real ?

Joyce is blaming an engine failure on a pax ? WTF?

https://doublebaytoday.com/qantas-ce...eroplane-mode/
Capn Rex Havoc is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:40
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 160
Received 42 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
Joyce is blaming an engine failure on a pax ? WTF?

https://doublebaytoday.com/qantas-ce...eroplane-mode/
Check the source there Cap. Seems to be channeling the Betoota Advocate.
JustinHeywood is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 20:09
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,401
Received 43 Likes on 13 Posts
What is the "paperwork" that could so affect a domestic flight?
Fris B. Fairing is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 20:25
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,328
Received 160 Likes on 77 Posts
Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing
What is the "paperwork" that could so affect a domestic flight?
no G2G pass?
compressor stall is online now  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 20:27
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,423
Received 500 Likes on 255 Posts
EDTO was not signed off in the tech log by engineering. Not lawful to continue.

The aircraft doesn’t know whether a flight is domestic or international.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 20:41
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 377
Received 129 Likes on 54 Posts
Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing
What is the "paperwork" that could so affect a domestic flight?
A Tech log entry indicating EDTO checks have been completed.

Many years ago a Qantas 767 taxied in Brisbane for departure to Honolulu. OGA, B, and C had an increased MTOW for specific sectors with a regulatory requirement to have a placard on the flightdeck door indicating which MTOW was 'in use' and a tech log entry (Hold Item) showing the higher MTOW. Unfortunately the dispatching engineer forgot to flip the MTOW placard to the higher weight. Rather than taxi back from the 19 threshold to the gate the crew requested the info be sent by ACARS with a note that the placard was displaying the lesser weight. (It was post 9/11 so no-one had a screwdriver to loosen the placard screws and they were too tight for a first class knife!). It took about 15 minutes and the flight proceeded.

Arguably both the 767 and the QF887 could have completed their journey without issue, however in each case the operating crew having noted the 'paperwork' oversight, were compelled by regulation to take the action they did.
C441 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 21:57
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 319
Received 35 Likes on 17 Posts
Is AD to PH really EDTO? Didn’t think it was that far off the coast. Couldn’t they just re-route a bit closer pending the fuel on board? Seems a bit strange to me.
No Idea Either is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:13
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 69
Posts: 4,553
Received 323 Likes on 157 Posts
Originally Posted by No Idea Either
Is AD to PH really EDTO? Didnít think it was that far off the coast. Couldnít they just re-route a bit closer pending the fuel on board? Seems a bit strange to me.
Remember, EDTO/ETOPS doesn't just apply to over water - it's based on distance from a suitable airport.
QANTAS was an early adopter of ETOPS - but not necessarily for over water flights. There were lots of flight across the Outback where the most efficient route was more than 60 minutes from a suitable airport and so required ETOPS.
tdracer is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:13
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,323
Received 186 Likes on 93 Posts
Originally Posted by No Idea Either
Is AD to PH really EDTO?
Yes indeed. 420nm range rings.
Capt Fathom is online now  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:14
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Moved beyond
Posts: 1,243
Received 123 Likes on 72 Posts
Originally Posted by No Idea Either
Is AD to PH really EDTO? Didn’t think it was that far off the coast. Couldn’t they just re-route a bit closer pending the fuel on board? Seems a bit strange to me.
It's not so much the distance from the coast as the distance from suitable enroute alternates. When I was flying for a large international airline, we had approval to use Kalgoorlie and Woomera as enroute alternates if we had to divert from Perth to Adelaide. If the weather was suitable, the direct route could be flown non-EDTO. If not, it had to be EDTO with higher fuel reserves to cater for the longer eng inop/depress case.

In our case, the 60 minute rule distance was 434 NM:

Last edited by BuzzBox; 24th Jan 2023 at 22:51. Reason: EDTO map added
BuzzBox is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:20
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,947
Received 483 Likes on 268 Posts
Joyce is blaming an engine failure on a pax ? WTF?
Might not be blaming pax but he would definitely be blaming the media for beating up on it instead of expanding the engineering budget and admitting that newer airplanes actually do need just as much maintenance. The latest paperwork oversight is a direct indication of engineering issues, but hey his final year at QF will be a huge profit guaranteeing him a massive parting gift from all that work there...
43Inches is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:35
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 2,509
Received 401 Likes on 141 Posts
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
Joyce is blaming an engine failure on a pax ? WTF?

https://doublebaytoday.com/qantas-ce...eroplane-mode/
Itís called satire
morno is online now  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:58
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 1,086
Received 799 Likes on 216 Posts
Originally Posted by Eclan
Turning back for paperwork? Why not just get approval over ACARS to sign it yourself and continue? The jet doesn't know if it's signed off or not. Neither does the weather. Must've been a cadet...
You are aware that a maintenance procedure actually has to be actioned arenít you? Inspections are not simply a matter of pencil whipping the equipment and sending it on its way. If the inspection was done and not signed, too bad, the equipment is not compliant.
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 23:22
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,947
Received 483 Likes on 268 Posts
Turning back for paperwork? Why not just get approval over ACARS to sign it yourself and continue? The jet doesn't know if it's signed off or not. Neither does the weather. Must've been a cadet...
Start making assumptions on bad paperwork is the road to lots of hurt. In reality the discrepancy should have been noted pre-departure, but lots of holes for this to get where it is. There's even the possiblity with non sign offs that maintenance was not completed and things were still in a mess somewhere in the aircraft (not saying it applies to this flight). So yes if you are early into the flight and a maintenance discrepancy that affects the legality of the flight is noted, you turn around. Hmm and since when does a pilot have the authority to sign off engineering actions...

Reminds me of the time two jet captains on 121.5 briefing each other on an ILS because one did not have the charts (pre-Eflight bags) and the destination was down to minima....
43Inches is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 23:31
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,651
Received 128 Likes on 69 Posts
Originally Posted by Fathom
Yes indeed. 420nm range rings.
Put in YAYE. Direct ENTRE direct YPPH.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2023, 23:54
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,940
Likes: 0
Received 276 Likes on 124 Posts

Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2023, 00:05
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,651
Received 128 Likes on 69 Posts
Entre!
Capn Bloggs is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.