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Another day, another QF incident

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Another day, another QF incident

Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:01
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by unobtanium View Post
ABC at its best
​​​​​​​That would be the 747 that has 2 engines,new addition to the fleet🤣
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:06
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by unobtanium View Post
ABC at its best
That quote is not what is written in the article
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:17
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eclan View Post
Turning back for paperwork? Why not just get approval over ACARS to sign it yourself and continue? The jet doesn't know if it's signed off or not. Neither does the weather. Must've been a cadet...
Discover that EDTO (what ETOPS is now) hasnít been signed off in the tech log by engineering and you canít proceed, regardless of the background of the pilot. Pulling a dodgy and just continuing is going to land the pilots in hot water.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:32
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Is this for real ?

Joyce is blaming an engine failure on a pax ? WTF?

https://doublebaytoday.com/qantas-ce...eroplane-mode/
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 19:40
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
Joyce is blaming an engine failure on a pax ? WTF?

https://doublebaytoday.com/qantas-ce...eroplane-mode/
Check the source there Cap. Seems to be channeling the Betoota Advocate.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 20:09
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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What is the "paperwork" that could so affect a domestic flight?
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 20:25
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing View Post
What is the "paperwork" that could so affect a domestic flight?
no G2G pass?
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 20:27
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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EDTO was not signed off in the tech log by engineering. Not lawful to continue.

The aircraft doesn’t know whether a flight is domestic or international.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 20:41
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing View Post
What is the "paperwork" that could so affect a domestic flight?
A Tech log entry indicating EDTO checks have been completed.

Many years ago a Qantas 767 taxied in Brisbane for departure to Honolulu. OGA, B, and C had an increased MTOW for specific sectors with a regulatory requirement to have a placard on the flightdeck door indicating which MTOW was 'in use' and a tech log entry (Hold Item) showing the higher MTOW. Unfortunately the dispatching engineer forgot to flip the MTOW placard to the higher weight. Rather than taxi back from the 19 threshold to the gate the crew requested the info be sent by ACARS with a note that the placard was displaying the lesser weight. (It was post 9/11 so no-one had a screwdriver to loosen the placard screws and they were too tight for a first class knife!). It took about 15 minutes and the flight proceeded.

Arguably both the 767 and the QF887 could have completed their journey without issue, however in each case the operating crew having noted the 'paperwork' oversight, were compelled by regulation to take the action they did.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 21:57
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Is AD to PH really EDTO? Didn’t think it was that far off the coast. Couldn’t they just re-route a bit closer pending the fuel on board? Seems a bit strange to me.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:13
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by No Idea Either View Post
Is AD to PH really EDTO? Didnít think it was that far off the coast. Couldnít they just re-route a bit closer pending the fuel on board? Seems a bit strange to me.
Remember, EDTO/ETOPS doesn't just apply to over water - it's based on distance from a suitable airport.
QANTAS was an early adopter of ETOPS - but not necessarily for over water flights. There were lots of flight across the Outback where the most efficient route was more than 60 minutes from a suitable airport and so required ETOPS.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:13
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by No Idea Either View Post
Is AD to PH really EDTO?
Yes indeed. 420nm range rings.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:14
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by No Idea Either View Post
Is AD to PH really EDTO? Didn’t think it was that far off the coast. Couldn’t they just re-route a bit closer pending the fuel on board? Seems a bit strange to me.
It's not so much the distance from the coast as the distance from suitable enroute alternates. When I was flying for a large international airline, we had approval to use Kalgoorlie and Woomera as enroute alternates if we had to divert from Perth to Adelaide. If the weather was suitable, the direct route could be flown non-EDTO. If not, it had to be EDTO with higher fuel reserves to cater for the longer eng inop/depress case.

In our case, the 60 minute rule distance was 434 NM:

Last edited by BuzzBox; 24th Jan 2023 at 22:51. Reason: EDTO map added
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:20
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Joyce is blaming an engine failure on a pax ? WTF?
Might not be blaming pax but he would definitely be blaming the media for beating up on it instead of expanding the engineering budget and admitting that newer airplanes actually do need just as much maintenance. The latest paperwork oversight is a direct indication of engineering issues, but hey his final year at QF will be a huge profit guaranteeing him a massive parting gift from all that work there...
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:35
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
Joyce is blaming an engine failure on a pax ? WTF?

https://doublebaytoday.com/qantas-ce...eroplane-mode/
Itís called satire
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 22:58
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Eclan View Post
Turning back for paperwork? Why not just get approval over ACARS to sign it yourself and continue? The jet doesn't know if it's signed off or not. Neither does the weather. Must've been a cadet...
You are aware that a maintenance procedure actually has to be actioned arenít you? Inspections are not simply a matter of pencil whipping the equipment and sending it on its way. If the inspection was done and not signed, too bad, the equipment is not compliant.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 23:22
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Turning back for paperwork? Why not just get approval over ACARS to sign it yourself and continue? The jet doesn't know if it's signed off or not. Neither does the weather. Must've been a cadet...
Start making assumptions on bad paperwork is the road to lots of hurt. In reality the discrepancy should have been noted pre-departure, but lots of holes for this to get where it is. There's even the possiblity with non sign offs that maintenance was not completed and things were still in a mess somewhere in the aircraft (not saying it applies to this flight). So yes if you are early into the flight and a maintenance discrepancy that affects the legality of the flight is noted, you turn around. Hmm and since when does a pilot have the authority to sign off engineering actions...

Reminds me of the time two jet captains on 121.5 briefing each other on an ILS because one did not have the charts (pre-Eflight bags) and the destination was down to minima....
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 23:31
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fathom
Yes indeed. 420nm range rings.
Put in YAYE. Direct ENTRE direct YPPH.
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Old 24th Jan 2023, 23:54
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Old 25th Jan 2023, 00:05
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Entre!
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