717 NJS - What's Going On?
Thread Starter
I can’t believe Daddy QF hasn’t stepped in to ground them - before CASA do.
When they stick one in the side of a hill with Qantas colours all over it, you can guarantee Joe Blow Public has never heard of “National Jet” and the damage to the main brand will be incredible.
Seems it’s time to wrap up the B717 operation NOW, transfer the remaining crew to mainline ASAP, and bring the A220 in house before the inevitable happens.
While I’ve never worked for NJS, I agree with some of the military comments. Some of the best, most competent, nicest people I’ve flown with were ex RAAF.
But throughout my career they have also been over-represented in the worst 10% I’ve flown with. Transport/maritime guys generally nice guys with a lot less dick swinging and better ability to work in a team.
Why management would sit idly by as they employ each other incestuously into the C&T system and push all their FOs out the door - I’ll never understand.
When they stick one in the side of a hill with Qantas colours all over it, you can guarantee Joe Blow Public has never heard of “National Jet” and the damage to the main brand will be incredible.
Seems it’s time to wrap up the B717 operation NOW, transfer the remaining crew to mainline ASAP, and bring the A220 in house before the inevitable happens.
While I’ve never worked for NJS, I agree with some of the military comments. Some of the best, most competent, nicest people I’ve flown with were ex RAAF.
But throughout my career they have also been over-represented in the worst 10% I’ve flown with. Transport/maritime guys generally nice guys with a lot less dick swinging and better ability to work in a team.
Why management would sit idly by as they employ each other incestuously into the C&T system and push all their FOs out the door - I’ll never understand.
Originally Posted by Slippery_Pete
I can’t believe Daddy QF hasn’t stepped in to ground them - before CASA do.
When they stick one in the side of a hill with Qantas colours all over it, you can guarantee Joe Blow Public has never heard of “National Jet” and the damage to the main brand will be incredible.
Seems it’s time to wrap up the B717 operation NOW, transfer the remaining crew to mainline ASAP, and bring the A220 in house before the inevitable happens.
When they stick one in the side of a hill with Qantas colours all over it, you can guarantee Joe Blow Public has never heard of “National Jet” and the damage to the main brand will be incredible.
Seems it’s time to wrap up the B717 operation NOW, transfer the remaining crew to mainline ASAP, and bring the A220 in house before the inevitable happens.
The problems from all accounts stem from the QF takeover and outsourcing all the maintenance (ie: sacking all the Cobham blokes who had worked on the aircraft type forever) and constant almost yearly base closures causing all the experienced checkies to leave.
From what I’ve seen there’s nothing wrong with the competency of the pilots in this group. They won’t be flying aircraft into hills. A broad range of experience from international ops to Aussie GA Pilots and old school Aussie NJS Pilots (from before Cobham or Qantas took them over).
Think of it more like being kicked out of your local drinking hole, thrown into a rear alley, with a few low blows delivered just for good measure as you become airborne and just prior to your a*&^ hitting the cold and hard concrete.
Thread Starter
Competency will only get you so far if both power-plants decide to give up the ghost on the same flight, which is what you risk when engine failure rates start to head into multiple occurrences for similar reasons.
You can already predict the reasons in the ATSB report if the inevitable happens - namely inadequate supervision by parent company and inadequate supervision by the regulator.
If what people are saying is true, I can’t believe they’re still operating.
It’s always difficult to get the whole truth on PPRuNe however hopefully this mob can turn things around.
National Jet is a solid part of Aussie aviation history. There’s still Airlink signs around the place (Alice, Darwin, Broome ect) from when they were flying alongside Australian Airlines before QF had a domestic arm. No doubt there’s a few old fellas left in the company from those times.
National Jet is a solid part of Aussie aviation history. There’s still Airlink signs around the place (Alice, Darwin, Broome ect) from when they were flying alongside Australian Airlines before QF had a domestic arm. No doubt there’s a few old fellas left in the company from those times.
Bottums Up
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: dunnunda
Age: 65
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RENURPP
it was that long ago NJS were operating Bae 146 at a higher on time performance rate than the rest of the group.
”cockpit to ground, starts complete, clear to disconnect. On time, no call back”. 🤣🤣🤣
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: AUS
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ozbiggles
Interesting ATSB are all over one airline for a rwy over run but not in one with a spate of engine failures and descent below LSALT in CTA.
Originally Posted by pinkpanther1
Apparently CASA, Rolls Royce and ATSB are working on the engine issue. 4 in 6 months does raise the question - surely the fleet should be inspected?
Originally Posted by 717tech
I can't find any reference to these Engine failures on the ATSB site. There's a few reports from a few years back which makes me think my search was accurate.
- , one @ 60% thrust during return to service- i.e. "on the line in the morning or else" - engine runs). Even ATSB personnel had great difficulty finding anything about them in their database about 2yrs later. "Awaiting manufacturers strip/damage report" was the advice on the inflight; there is still no mention to this day on the ATSB website. Engines were "on condition" but very close to manufacturer's recommended max for time on wing. Two didn't make it; don't know how the other went but it did manage to bring the airframe back to the departure aerodrome some 53mins after the grisly death of it's ailing mate.There seems to be some censoring of what makes it into the crash comics these days. Personally I think there is a "bury it" culture pervading everything in aviation safety and regulation of late.
Thread Starter
I am not surprised. There is also no mention of a Northern regional airline's two catastrophic failures circa Jun2018 either (one in flight eastbound - the turbine section seized - , one @ 60% thrust during return to service- i.e. "on the line in the morning or else" - engine runs). Even ATSB personnel had great difficulty finding anything about them in their database about 2yrs later. "Awaiting manufacturers strip/damage report" was the advice on the inflight; there is still no mention to this day on the ATSB website. Engines were "on condition" but very close to manufacturer's recommended max for time on wing. Two didn't make it; don't know how the other went but it did manage to bring the airframe back to the departure aerodrome some 53mins after the grisly death of it's ailing mate.
There seems to be some censoring of what makes it into the crash comics these days. Personally I think there is a "bury it" culture pervading everything in aviation safety and regulation of late.
- , one @ 60% thrust during return to service- i.e. "on the line in the morning or else" - engine runs). Even ATSB personnel had great difficulty finding anything about them in their database about 2yrs later. "Awaiting manufacturers strip/damage report" was the advice on the inflight; there is still no mention to this day on the ATSB website. Engines were "on condition" but very close to manufacturer's recommended max for time on wing. Two didn't make it; don't know how the other went but it did manage to bring the airframe back to the departure aerodrome some 53mins after the grisly death of it's ailing mate.There seems to be some censoring of what makes it into the crash comics these days. Personally I think there is a "bury it" culture pervading everything in aviation safety and regulation of late.
Money hungry management and boards so busy trying to flog their “wage freeze policy” to get personal bonuses… meanwhile clapped out aircraft are flying around with 10, 20, 30, sometimes more than 40 open defects.
Australia is perilously close to a jet hull loss. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it this bad. The Virgin Brisbane closed runway should have been a wake up call for EVERYONE. The cheese is aligning.
And meanwhile, CASA seem intent on wasting resources on things like stonewalling Glen Buckley for years to avoid essentially saying “we’re sorry”. They should perhaps be focusing on shutting down a jet RPT operator whose engines regularly keep going bang, often in spectacular fashion.
I hope like anything I’m wrong. I feel very uneasy about it all, and a lot of my colleagues feel the same - it’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.
While our safety organisations continue to site our lack of accidents as evidence of how safe we are, we are fighting a losing battle. I have been asked to (and I quote) “show me all these accidents we’ve had.” That was in the wake of a serious safety incident after which I suggested the culture was bad and that we were destined to have an accident. It is slightly perverse that we need accidents in order to be safe these days.
I can't find any reference to these Engine failures on the ATSB site. There's a few reports from a few years back which makes me think my search was accurate
Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
Any truth to Delta A220 Pilots guaranteed base salary being greater then $260K Aus a year and NJSs’ being less then $200K?
You can google JetBlue TA or go to www.airlinepilotcentral.com to find the DL pay scales. A220-300 CPT for both is about $400K AUD...
Captain Base would be around $185K USD ($277K AUD) based on minimum 65 guaranteed stick per bid period from what I can see. With 401k contrbutions and benefits add another $40k USD. Another 10 hours average per bid period would equate around $30K USD more. Depends if an Aussie gets the same contract or more. Then subtract about 1/3rd for various taxes depending on domicile.
