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Qantas loses $860 million last year.

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Qantas loses $860 million last year.

Old 30th Aug 2022, 12:32
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Oops I said something nasty about the roo, I must be one of someones multiple accounts, poor me. Odd thing is the only company stooges actually caught out for doing that was Qantas, many years ago in the VB vs QF threads.... Now they seem to be trying to imply everyone else does it. Maybe AJ has caught onto Dixons antics.

PS This thread went to the dogs, but I feel pulling out the schoolyard 'you must be a failed applicant' on someone just wreaks of elitism, so I decided to come back and sling some mud gently.
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Old 30th Aug 2022, 12:38
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Oops I said something nasty about the roo, I must be one of someones multiple accounts, poor me. Odd thing is the only company stooges actually caught out for doing that was Qantas, many years ago in the VB vs QF threads.... Now they seem to be trying to imply everyone else does it. Maybe AJ has caught onto Dixons antics.
Didn't answer my question. Who were you replying to? What 'comments' of yours are you referring?

You want to insult Qantas, fill your boots. Poking fun at quantas muppets is one of my favourite sports. I do draw the line at calling for all of them to lose their jobs however, that is something that would cause enormous harm and as discussed, likely take the lives of some
Not something to joke about. Do you not agree?
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Old 30th Aug 2022, 12:50
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Its a bulletin board, I don't have to reply to anyone. A few have swung the old failed applicant sword and I made a general quip back. I already stated I don't want anyone to go broke. That's different from saying that they are headed down that path and as others have stated their opinions on whether that's realistic or not I'm not going to harp on about it. As for quoting seats filled, bookings, LFs, and accident history means what? Sounds like my dog is better than your cat white noise. QF sucks at the moment, even AJ admitted it, that's why he's so generously handing out $50 vouchers to somebody.
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Old 30th Aug 2022, 12:59
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Its a bulletin board, I don't have to reply to anyone. A few have swung the old failed applicant sword and I made a general quip back. I already stated I don't want anyone to go broke. That's different from saying that they are headed down that path and as others have stated their opinions on whether that's realistic or not I'm not going to harp on about it. As for quoting seats filled, bookings, LFs, and accident history means what? Sounds like my dog is better than your cat white noise. QF sucks at the moment, even AJ admitted it, that's why he's so generously handing out $50 vouchers to somebody.
You haven't written a thing in 58 posts, then expect me to believe that you randomly pop in with

"My comments are purely observations of the operation and management."

... What comments?!

Your post only makes sense if you forgot you were logged in under a different account. What a crackup.

As for this nonsense about 'elitism'. I'm not accusing Deano/You of being a reject because of criticism of Qantas. The thread is filled with criticism and I haven't said squat to any of those posters. You/Deano however, have demonstrated a bizarre, obsessive, neurotic hatred of Qantas, wishing harm not only on the company, but on everyone who works there, even if that means some may literally die as a result. That kind of warped vitriol is in my experience at least, founded in a rejection of some kind, so I'd wager I'm not far from the truth.

If I really wanted to go for elitism, I'd make some kind of vapid comment like calling JQ a dumpster. Ah wait, that you you.

My bad.

Now, make sure you login with the right account this time kiddo. Says which one you're using in the top right. PM me if you need a hand. Computers are hard.
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Old 30th Aug 2022, 13:03
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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I think this thread has lost its mind.

And yes I was referring to my comments from 58 post ago if that's how many it was. The point being that I have no wish for any company to follow that path, but QF is tracking that way (IMO).
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Old 30th Aug 2022, 13:51
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
The point being that I have no wish for any company to follow that path, but QF is tracking that way (IMO).
Is it though?

I remember (before he went insane) Clive Palmer talking about the Qantas issues in 2014. He said something along the lines of “there’s not too much wrong with Qantas, their fundamentals are strong and if I was the CEO I’d fix em up”.

I think he’s right. The fundamentals of QF are very strong. Big cash reserves, big market share, debt lowest since GFC, very strong FF program, share price on the way up (some forecasts show it heading for mid-$6), FY results better than expected, travel demand coming back strongly. I believe the recent handouts to FF were quite enticing (website crashed as a result of demand). Fleet renewal program underway (mainline aircraft ordered for the first time under Joyce).

Yes there are issues, no doubt about it. But the same was said (QF about to collapse) in 2020 with Covid, in 2014 after the capacity war, in 2011 with the PIA, in 2008 with the GFC. The company is now heading into supposed oblivion for the 5th time in 15 years…..
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Old 30th Aug 2022, 18:31
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
So its pointed out to you that a large scale airline failure will without question lead to the deaths of fellow pilots, with evidence to back up that assertion via the AN collapse. You acknowledge the reality of this, and then double down wishing for 70% of Australian pilots to lose their jobs anyway, and who knows how many to die, because "It has been a toxic place to work under its current structure"

Have you ever even worked for JQ or QF?

Honestly, what is wrong with you?

You don't like Qantas. Ok mate, "cool". Don't fly them, problem solved. The rest is absolute drivel that I've no doubt you'd rapidly fail to parrot in the physical presence of any of the people who would be affected by your malicious little fantasy.

Most people when they get the 'try again in 6 months letter' just get over it mate. This is spiteful, puerile nonsense.
A business that goes bust doesn't lead to suicide, poor financials of the employed may
No different to the 9-11, GFC etc if you just got a massive mortgage and got laid off, yea it's tough, but the strong find a way
How's about if your job gets outsourced, or if the Irishman grounds the airline, would this not have the same effect?
If a company goes bust, people don't stop flying, as with AN, VB and QF stepped in, AN mark 2 ran for a short while with 320s and a short time later capacity matched demand, so who flew these birds?

Uber please stop playing the death card
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Old 30th Aug 2022, 21:30
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Where is the “ignore user” button again?

never mind, found it.

Bye Deano, you toxic child.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 00:17
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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I am perplex as to why another human would want to see another human loose their job just because they think a company is to big. I bet you’re a treat around the dinner table.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 01:00
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
I am perplex as to why another human would want to see another human loose their job just because they think a company is to big. I bet you’re a treat around the dinner table.
Sounds similar to the people wishing to see Rex and Bonza fail on other threads, just because they don’t like the management or what the airline is.

As soon as QF is on the attack, it’s all defensive.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 03:05
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Is a difference between ‘wishing to fail’ and ‘destined to fail’.

Dr Tony Weber has a good analysis on why Bonza is doomed. Digging into data around population and market sizes. If the numbers don’t stack up, they don’t stack up.

Time will tell.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 05:26
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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REX will eat away at their market share, AJ will lose this battle, the shareholders will revolt


Sorry but this is delusional. As at today QF has a mainline domestic fleet of around 20,000 seats. This is only the A332s, 738s and 717s and does not include the jet fleet principally but not exclusively concentrated on FIFO as well as ignoring the A333s can also operate domestically. Even after allowing for the 4, as yet, undelivered 738s, REX has a domestic jet capacity of just 1760 seats. We know QF domestic jet operations were profitable in FY22 Q4 as they announced it to the ASX. REX did not make a similar comment because it isn't and if it said it was the directors would be committing a crime.


Emirates deal another disaster
How so? The EK deal has enabled QF to offer one-stop services to Europe and Africa that it could never profitably operate using its own metal.


A380s a disaster

and yet QF would love to have them all operational as we speak.

We need new blood in this industry not an old dinosaur
What exactly about REX's jet operations constitute new blood? The are flying old jets rejected by their competitor who instead took newer leased 738s that were available. They have the same hard product that VA operated the jets with so not any innovation there. They are flying no unique routes but instead flying a few trunk routes that they only partly fill when selling the seats at stupidly low prices. They pay under-the-odds so much that staff quickly resign when they find out they are eligible for re-employment back at QF or VA.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 05:39
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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I think the same people were up in arms years ago when I was saying VA was on shaky ground while JB was pumping up the debt. The foreign investment from EQ, SQ and AirNZ being the only reason they lasted abnormally long, otherwise they would have been doomed probably 5 or so years ago. You can only sell so many assets and lease back, or blame worker conditions before you have to face reality that the numbers are against you and too many sharks are taking chunks of your revenue.

What did we find out about VA at the end? That the reported losses were the tip of the iceberg not the worst case bet. Of course thats what all share listed companies do, its all rosy until an alarm bell sounds 5 minutes to the bankrupt deadline.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 05:46
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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A380s a disaster
Not according to many of the pax that fly on them…...
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 05:52
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 1A_Please View Post
Sorry but this is delusional. As at today QF has a mainline domestic fleet of around 20,000 seats. This is only the A332s, 738s and 717s and does not include the jet fleet principally but not exclusively concentrated on FIFO as well as ignoring the A333s can also operate domestically. Even after allowing for the 4, as yet, undelivered 738s, REX has a domestic jet capacity of just 1760 seats. We know QF domestic jet operations were profitable in FY22 Q4 as they announced it to the ASX. REX did not make a similar comment because it isn't and if it said it was the directors would be committing a crime.


How so? The EK deal has enabled QF to offer one-stop services to Europe and Africa that it could never profitably operate using its own metal.


and yet QF would love to have them all operational as we speak.


What exactly about REX's jet operations constitute new blood? The are flying old jets rejected by their competitor who instead took newer leased 738s that were available. They have the same hard product that VA operated the jets with so not any innovation there. They are flying no unique routes but instead flying a few trunk routes that they only partly fill when selling the seats at stupidly low prices. They pay under-the-odds so much that staff quickly resign when they find out they are eligible for re-employment back at QF or VA.


Really?

1) So if QF have a domestic seat capacity of 20,000 and REX will have 1,760, this is getting close to 9% assuming REX has 10 738s and stops growing, assuming QF/JQ has 70% market share and REXs jets are going out at 85% then YES REX is eating away at QF/JQ market share by around 5%
With nothing else factoring in QF/JQ market share going from 70% to 65% would on it's own see a shareholder revolt

2) Prior to EK QF had more 1 stop options on its own metal and just as many via Asia

3) Even AJ said better to run 2 x 787s than 1 x A388, again 1 disaster to the next, QF needs the 788s only to fill a capacity gap, they are very slow coming back as they were initially stored with the intention of never coming back, AJ many times predicted a surge in demand post covid but did nothing about it, now there is talk about wet leases 787s coming (hey they may well be permanent!!!)

4) New blood does not mean new routes of frames, it means a new way of doing things, like being a lower cost base as JS said cheaper that JQ for example or how about offering old fashioned and value for money to their customers or even getting luggage to the destination
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 06:08
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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assuming REX has 10 738s and stops growing,
Hold on, won’t Rex’ market share go backwards?

Virgin will throw another 30 in, Bonza 5-10, Jetstar say about 10.

Whilst I agree that QF market share might trend backwards in the short term, but that’s largely due to Virgin and a lack of QF Mainline orders rolling in at the moment.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 06:30
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Originally Posted by C441 View Post
Not according to many of the pax that fly on them…...
Its a pax aeroplane not a business managers aeroplane. The fact is the Dash 8s or 717s will fly more passengers per aeroplane and make more money for the group then the 380s ever will.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 07:23
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Its a pax aeroplane not a business managers aeroplane. The fact is the Dash 8s or 717s will fly more passengers per aeroplane and make more money for the group then the 380s ever will.
Whilst there is some truth in that, yield management has a lot to do with how much money an aircraft makes. If it is truly a passenger's aircraft they will pay a premium. It also has premium cabins which don't exist on a Dash 8 or 717.
The Concorde would be the extreme example of all that in practice. It even had it's own lounge for one aircraft type, however the offering was so compelling that people paid the money.
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Old 31st Aug 2022, 09:01
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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So if QF have a domestic seat capacity of 20,000 and REX will have 1,760, this is getting close to 9% assuming REX has 10 738s and stops growing, assuming QF/JQ has 70% market share and REXs jets are going out at 85% then YES REX is eating away at QF/JQ market share by around 5%
With nothing else factoring in QF/JQ market share going from 70% to 65% would on it's own see a shareholder revolt
I don't think anyone other than you believes REX is getting anywhere near an average of 85% load factor. In addition, REX is only getting any sort of loads by selling seats far less than QF would ever countenance. QF's RASK is far better than REX.

Prior to EK QF had more 1 stop options on its own metal and just as many via Asia
Prior to the EK alliance, QF could only fly you to LHR or FRA with one stop. Now with EK it can fly you to PRG, WAW, BUD, CDG, MUC, DUS, GLA, DUB, MAD with full recognition of status etc.
Even AJ said better to run 2 x 787s than 1 x A388, again 1 disaster to the next, QF needs the 788s only to fill a capacity gap, they are very slow coming back as they were initially stored with the intention of never coming back, AJ many times predicted a surge in demand post covid but did nothing about it, now there is talk about wet leases 787s coming (hey they may well be permanent!!!)
So you are saying QF has bounced back so well they need more capacity which they do. Yes, they could have planned the bounceback better but then again no one really knew what would happen.
New blood does not mean new routes of frames, it means a new way of doing things, like being a lower cost base as JS said cheaper that JQ for example or how about offering old fashioned and value for money to their customers or even getting luggage to the destination
What does REX do that is new? It flies the same planes but on average way older with a frequency that makes it pointless for business travellers on the same routes. Your impeccable source for their supposed cost advantage is John Sharp who has proved himself nothing but incompetent over the past year. I'm sure the Singaporeans only kept him around because he said he knew people in the federal government and that's not even true anymore.

I notice you didn't comment on the respective profitability of the domestic operations. QF made a statement to ASX that domestic was profitable in FY22 Q4. REX didn't because it isn't and for JS etc to make a statement like that would be a crime. In fact, REX's amateurish report on its results did not even break out its results between its legacy regional services and its probably doomed mainline folly.


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Old 31st Aug 2022, 09:07
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
Its a pax aeroplane not a business managers aeroplane.
….that was regularly full or nearly full of premium pax paying commercial fares in both Business and First Class. Maybe that's changed post-Covid but I doubt it judging by how difficult it is to get a seat. For example, there are less than 2 seats in any premium class on any of the next 5 days between SIN and LHR, including none on 3 of those 5 days. At the fares that are being charged, I highly doubt they are running at a loss.
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