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B717 taxiway excursion Rockhampton

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B717 taxiway excursion Rockhampton

Old 18th Jul 2022, 03:43
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Looking at the orientation of the aircraft in the daylight pics, in relation to the ground markings shown in the overhead shot, I don't think he made a beeline for the bay as per the proposed dotted route. The nose is too far to the left in actuality. I think they mistook TWY J for the apron edge taxiway, then turned left to head to the bay as if they were on the apron.
where the lead out lines don’t lead to anywhere and you’re forced to make your own way over to the correct line. No doubt the crew had done a bit of this and it normalises not following the lines
That's because lead out lines:

must extend to a point from where the pilot can clearly see the taxi guideline.

They don't have to take you there. If you look at the overhead of Rocky, the lead out lines don't take you to a taxi lane either, but pilots taxying out don't end up in the grass strangely.

These guys weren't taxying out, they were taxying in. Lead in lines always take you all the way there.
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 04:03
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Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was View Post

These guys weren't taxying out, they were taxying in. Lead in lines always take you all the way there.
Yes, that’s true. I was more talking about the normalisation of taxiing without being on a line. As for your quote of the purpose of lead out lines, Brisbane seems to have applied this in an academic rather than a practical manner.
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 04:35
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Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was View Post
Looking at the orientation of the aircraft in the daylight pics, in relation to the ground markings shown in the overhead shot, I don't think he made a beeline for the bay as per the proposed dotted route. The nose is too far to the left in actuality. I think they mistook TWY J for the apron edge taxiway, then turned left to head to the bay as if they were on the apron.
I dunno, though that was my first thought too... But the ADS-B track suggests they exited the runway and on crossing the hold short line headed straight in towards Bay 4. I'd have thought the turn would have continued some more if they mistook J for apron taxilane.

Incidentally, -NXH seems to be planned to work YBBN-YBMA return in a few minutes...So whatever damage was incurred can't have been too major or the engineers managed to get their checks done at Rocky...

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Old 18th Jul 2022, 05:01
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
but how early to people turn off the taxi light so not to blind the marshaller?
Aaaaarghh, that's an open wound! 300 yards and 70 degrees too soon, across three continents.

(not disputing this crew was facing straight in, so even a good habit could kick early to their detriment)


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Old 18th Jul 2022, 05:01
  #85 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
but how early to people turn off the taxi light so not to blind the marshaller?
Aaaaarghh, that's an open wound! 300 yards and 70 degrees too soon, across three continents.

(not disputing this crew was facing straight in, so even a good habit could kick in too early to their detriment)



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Old 18th Jul 2022, 05:10
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Aaaaarghh, that's an open wound! 300 yards and 70 degrees too soon, across three continents.

(not disputing this crew was facing straight in, so even a good habit could kick in too early to their detriment)
That's cryptic but I note that it's 102 metres from the start of the grass to the stop line....

I've just measured on Google Earth a regular bay I go in to and where I normally turn the lights off....
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 05:36
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
I've just measured on Google Earth a regular bay I go in to and where I normally turn the lights off....
Suppose it's a good habit to turn them off just​​​ before turning into the Bay to avoid blinding people. Latest when marshaller's signals are acquired and the crew transitions to their guidance.

Doing exactly that would have lined up the solely responsible PIC for the wet grass here, agreed. The daytime picture also got me thinking why so far in, not just the NW and stop, could they not see the grass once in it already? Perhaps not.

My scream was about colleagues rushing to close the taxi lights like their paycheck depended on it, irrelevant to the topic.
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 22:28
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Brisbane seems to have applied this in an academic rather than a practical manner.
Since there haven't been too many aircraft sitting stranded and calling for help to find their way off the apron, or ending up in ditches at other airports after departing Brisbane over the last 35 years, I think they're practical enough. As for normalisation, sometimes there are no lines to follow, most times there are. That's how the system works. The guys up the front are paid to know when each is appropriate.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 07:53
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I though the ATSB was going to look into this one but doesn’t seem to be on their web site. Is this investigation going to be internal and therefore likely not publicly released?
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 10:40
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Originally Posted by noclue View Post
I though the ATSB was going to look into this one but doesn’t seem to be on their web site. Is this investigation going to be internal and therefore likely not publicly released?
Perhaps mud on wheels is not considered to be damage, and bruised pilot ego not an injury? There is nothing in this to justify taxpayer dollars on an investigation. ATSB could spend a year on this to finally recommend a light on a pole, or low cost option of palm tree (illuminated of course) planted in the middle of the grassed area, or wow, a truckload of concrete.
One would hope that ATSB has more important things to address, like perhaps Australia’s alternate aerodrome policy for domestic operators.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 11:26
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Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli View Post
Perhaps mud on wheels is not considered to be damage, and bruised pilot ego not an injury? There is nothing in this to justify taxpayer dollars on an investigation. ATSB could spend a year on this to finally recommend a light on a pole, or low cost option of palm tree (illuminated of course) planted in the middle of the grassed area, or wow, a truckload of concrete.
One would hope that ATSB has more important things to address, like perhaps Australia’s alternate aerodrome policy for domestic operators.
Agreed. If he’d had alternate fuel onboard, he would have had plenty to go with the “if in doubt, power out” policy
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Old 29th Jul 2022, 03:32
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Aaaaarghh, that's an open wound! 300 yards and 70 degrees too soon, across three continents.

(not disputing this crew was facing straight in, so even a good habit could kick in too early to their detriment)
What about the wing inspection lights. Is their policy to taxi with every light turned on in every direction as per QF?
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