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B717 taxiway excursion Rockhampton

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B717 taxiway excursion Rockhampton

Old 13th Jul 2022, 03:06
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
the crew will just have to own this one as blaming what I can see as correctly marked taxiways is not cutting
Except another poster on this thread has also mentioned recent confusion on his/her part, and it sounds as though it was deemed enough of a risk to warrant further investigating at some point prior.

I would be very surprised if the investigation comes up with nothing more than 100% 'pilot error'.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 03:33
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Previous poster was also stating they were confused as to why they used blue lights, which is because the mark the edge zone of a maneuvering area, which would be exactly what they are marking in this instance. The lights are purely for assistance in following the line, your taxi light should still be looking for the line when the green lights don't exist, how are you ensuring wing tip clearances if you are playing choose your own adventures at night in these areas, this could quite easily have clipped a parked Cessna at another airport or other unlit obstruction that was correctly parked with respect to center-line markings. The blue lights only show the edge of the hard surface but don't mean anything else as far as clearances and path to follow, that's what the line markings are for, any Captain of a large aircraft should be thoroughly familiar with that concept.

I'd expect this sort of thing might happen on pushback at night, and the area to be of concern to that operation, but on taxi in, it's a bit rich to blame anyone else.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 03:42
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As much as I feel for the crew, I am tending to agree with 43I on this one. Short of a NWS failure or something, the poor buggers up the front of this one haven't come within cooee of following the taxiway, and while the HF experts will point out the latent threat of having a tiny patch of grass in the middle of a taxiway, it was marked and the edge lights were operative.

This photo, courtesy of smartaviation-apac.com/, is a bit better than the night-time ones I've seen and shows just how badly off course they were. 'Bout the only thing I can think of that makes sense to me, is they mistook the edge of TWY J disappearing behind them as the edge of the grass island and thought they could go straight in from their present position.

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Old 13th Jul 2022, 04:23
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Add to the issues mentioned previously the increasing habit of out sourced ground handlers who think it is necessary to start providing marshalling turns as soon as the aircraft turns off the runway.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 04:37
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You're lucky that they at least use their arms. Our lot don't start marshalling until you have already turned onto the bay then use micro movements to try and get the nose wheel right on the 5cm yellow line not really understanding the physics of 63T moving at 3kts. Don't get me started on the ridiculous one arm movement to turn left/right when 3m from the stop line.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 05:44
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Yes, it must be the marshallers fault.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 06:55
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Here is a hot tip for ya’ll. The PIC has final authority for the operation of the aircraft. Not the marshaller on 20 bucks an hour.

I also don’t think the marshaller cares about pilots flexing about their aeroplane weight, physics of moving objects or whatever else you can come up with.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 07:43
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What, then, are marshallers for?

if they are not competent they shouldn’t be let loose on the tarmac.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 08:07
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
What, then, are marshallers for?

if they are not competent they shouldn’t be let loose on the tarmac.
while I entirely agree - sad reality is just about everything airside, standards wise, is falling quicker than the value of the aussie dollar
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 08:16
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I also don’t think the marshaller cares about pilots flexing about their aeroplane weight, physics of moving objects or whatever else you can come up with.
Its not an issue abut caring its about being competent and being trained properly in the first place. The marshaller has a much better view of the tarmac and what is going on than the pilots. I would be happy to do without them and do it myself but the rules say otherwise.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 09:09
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
What, then, are marshallers for?

if they are not competent they shouldn’t be let loose on the tarmac.
All good in theory. Doesn’t work in practice.

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Old 13th Jul 2022, 10:30
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So now marshallers are among the thousands of ‘turn up, no experience required’ aviation workforce? What could possibly go wrong…

(Saw some baggage handler contractor personnel at an airport the other day. They all looked about 17.)
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 10:38
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Originally Posted by Going Nowhere View Post
There are blue lights on the edge and green on the centreline.
Yes

In heavy rain I initially mistook those blue lights as marking the edges of a taxiway into the apron.

Realised quickly it was not before I turned.

The daylight photo above is basically where I would have ended up as well had I turned…


Last edited by sagan; 13th Jul 2022 at 10:56.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 10:55
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Originally Posted by KRviator View Post
As much as I feel for the crew, I am tending to agree with 43I on this one. Short of a NWS failure or something, the poor buggers up the front of this one haven't come within cooee of following the taxiway, and while the HF experts will point out the latent threat of having a tiny patch of grass in the middle of a taxiway, it was marked and the edge lights were operative.

This photo, courtesy of smartaviation-apac.com/, is a bit better than the night-time ones I've seen and shows just how badly off course they were. 'Bout the only thing I can think of that makes sense to me, is they mistook the edge of TWY J disappearing behind them as the edge of the grass island and thought they could go straight in from their present position.
I’m not sure what time of day this happened, as I have not followed it. Just a quick thought! If it were night Raining maybe crew got disorientated, I see a hold line behind the aircraft. Maybe the crew see the marshaller hands up “I’m your marshaller” crew turn in when they see the line thinking it’s the lead in! Just a thought.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 12:19
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The aircraft is lined up perfectly for the entry to the bay….. but just a little too soon!
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 12:42
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IMG_4309.jpg


How has it taken this long to happen? Dark night, maybe wet, shine off the apron lights reflecting off the ground … Lead in line goes right as expected, then look at the marshaller and ….

poor buggers. Must be feeling like crap.

Last edited by compressor stall; 13th Jul 2022 at 12:53.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 23:15
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Oh dear, the aerial shot shows exactly what was going to happen at some point in time. Gotta feel for the crew, could have happened to any crew really.

But, once again it shows some idiot taxyway designer saving a few bucks on concrete or pavement, the Australia we know and love. Probably spent 3 times as much on 'education' and 'human factors' training to avoid such a happening. I ask ya, who approved this stupidity and how much did it save?
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 23:47
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Thanks compressor, your diagram really shows a lot. I was leaning towards the ‘pilot error’ side of things but a picture says a thousand words as they say. It’s easy to see how this happened now. I realise it was night time, but was it actually raining and do we know if the marshaller was actually giving them the straight ahead instructions.

It must be a QLD thing, the BNE apron is a nightmare when it’s raining, you can’t see any of the guidelines. Lucky we are so familiar with them or something like this, or worse, could happen in Brizzy too.
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Old 13th Jul 2022, 23:52
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KRviators picture and compressor stalls' aerial shot shows a distinct lack of taxiway J edge lighting compared to the apron taxiway edge lights on the opposite side of the grass strip. There's a hole in the cheese right there for an early turn in if not on the ball.

McHale.

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Old 14th Jul 2022, 00:51
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It’s similar off D at OOL, one could say why the crew didn’t follow the solid line?! That aerial shot shows a lot and what it does show, there is no taxi line in the direction of AC, sometimes it is what it is. A f$&k up.

First attempt at moving has failed, tow bar snapped off looks like they’re getting jacks to lift it.
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