QF Juggernaut
There is no way to stop the race to the bottom , the company always wins and always has. Remember when the Qantas pilots said don,t join Jetstar on such poor conditions , I wonder where all the people are that took this advice , probably not in Aviation , but more than likely in JQ or VA.
the only floor in this is the pilot award for now , but even this will be challenged.
457 visas would open the floodgates, never will be more than temporary shortages in Australian Airlines.
the only floor in this is the pilot award for now , but even this will be challenged.
457 visas would open the floodgates, never will be more than temporary shortages in Australian Airlines.
There is no way to stop the race to the bottom , the company always wins and always has. Remember when the Qantas pilots said don,t join Jetstar on such poor conditions , I wonder where all the people are that took this advice , probably not in Aviation , but more than likely in JQ or VA.
the only floor in this is the pilot award for now , but even this will be challenged.
457 visas would open the floodgates, never will be more than temporary shortages in Australian Airlines.
the only floor in this is the pilot award for now , but even this will be challenged.
457 visas would open the floodgates, never will be more than temporary shortages in Australian Airlines.
You say “race to the bottom”, the proposed deal for the A321 will see (at the usual hours of roughly 68 per roster) Captains earn about $310,000 and F/O’s $195,000. With some allowances, bonus and picking up an extra day of work a roster in what an “average” year pre pandemic would’ve consisted of can see that pay increase by 25-30%.
In comparison the Pilot’s Award floor for Narrowbody Captain and F/O are $171,000 and $110,000 once the ATPL, turbojet and IR allowances are added on.
In comparison the Pilot’s Award floor for Narrowbody Captain and F/O are $171,000 and $110,000 once the ATPL, turbojet and IR allowances are added on.
There is no way to stop the race to the bottom , the company always wins and always has.
Some places like the US have seen what is coming in the medium term and are offering some serious improvements in pay. Get them while you can etc.
We will be the last place on earth to react to anything and by the time we do, we will be parking aircraft and paying the next generation of pilots, whoever is left, crazy overtime rates. It’s at that point in when we might do something, which usually involves sooking to Canberra. Cadets are the answer apparently. No they are not, in this country they will all just p!ss off abroad taking double dollars to fly big twins with folding wings.
I don't ever recall QF getting bagged in the media, on travel forums and social media as much as they have been for the last few months. Surely, (eventually) some of the mud being flung must stick on Joyce and co. How long can they go on treating pax and staff with utter contempt whilst applauding there cost cutting strategies.
Furious passengers unleash on Qantas after flight attendants exposed the shocking secrets of Australia's national carrier: 'You need to do better'
Furious passengers unleash on Qantas after flight attendants exposed the shocking secrets of Australia's national carrier: 'You need to do better'
I don't ever recall QF getting bagged in the media, on travel forums and social media as much as they have been for the last few months. Surely, (eventually) some of the mud being flung must stick on Joyce and co. How long can they go on treating pax and staff with utter contempt whilst applauding there cost cutting strategies.
Furious passengers unleash on Qantas after flight attendants exposed the shocking secrets of Australia's national carrier: 'You need to do better'
Furious passengers unleash on Qantas after flight attendants exposed the shocking secrets of Australia's national carrier: 'You need to do better'
The lies continue & unless the decision of a court is in their favour,it is of course WRONG.
If anybody complains,whether it be passengers,workers or unions,they of course are wrong too.
It was once a great place to work but thats long gone.
With some allowances, bonus and picking up an extra day of work a roster
Now some may wish to work on average 3.5 days per week, which equates to about 75 hours per roster. Straight up that’s an extra 10% for roughly one extra day per roster.
If you work more you get paid more, it’s a pretty simple concept. However if you just work a standard roster you’re still making a considerable amount of money compared to the average income earner, comparable to mining engineers, lawyers and a lot of medical professionals.
Last edited by dr dre; 8th Jun 2022 at 00:26.
If you work a standard roster under current conditions without any extra flying, at average credit it’s an average of 3.2 days per week. Less than the standard 5 day work week. For that you get a salary which is about triple the Australian average salary, and puts you in the top 3% of Australian income earners. And that’s not including allowances or the bonus.
Now some may wish to work on average 3.5 days per week, which equates to about 75 hours per roster. Straight up that’s an extra 10% for roughly one extra day per roster.
If you work more you get paid more, it’s a pretty simple concept. However if you just work a standard roster you’re still making a considerable amount of money compared to the average income earner, comparable to mining engineers, lawyers and a lot of medical professionals.
Now some may wish to work on average 3.5 days per week, which equates to about 75 hours per roster. Straight up that’s an extra 10% for roughly one extra day per roster.
If you work more you get paid more, it’s a pretty simple concept. However if you just work a standard roster you’re still making a considerable amount of money compared to the average income earner, comparable to mining engineers, lawyers and a lot of medical professionals.
FFS the KRviatrix is an accountant, she works from home, is barely out of her PJ's by 1000 and earns not that much less than your exemplar Effo. And if she could be bothered, and became a executive or partner-type at KPMG or Deloitte, she'd be on similar coin to your skipper - and not have to deal with CAsA, the Doc for a Class 1 or the security muppets just to get to work!
Face facts, flying commercially in Oz is no longer worth it - it hasn't been for at least the last decade, and unless you're in it for the satisfaction of helping people, a'la RFDS or CareFlight, you're going to be far better off in another career and flying for fun, in your own time. Don't believe me? Run a search on 'Prune for the phrase "Race to the bottom" and see how many times it crops up....
On the current fleet the range of pilot backgrounds is variable, everything from late careers changes who came in to the role in their 50s down to cadets with only a few years in aviation in their early twenties. For sake of defining an "average" background I'd say just prior to Covid it was 30 years old, maybe several years of light aircraft GA flying followed by a few years of regional flying. A lot went straight into a regional via a cadetship or traineeship after basic training. Some went from about two years of basic GA instructing post CPL straight to mainline. Average national salary for someone at age 30 is slightly less than average overall salary, which peaks around age 50. People were getting FO gigs either straight away or no longer than a year or two wait depending on base, and the average age of a new hire is late 20s.
Average wages for Australian accountants are roughly $80-100k according to these salary statistics. You have to get to management positions to get salaries above the mid $100ks, and the only ones earning Captain's equivalent would be positions like CFO or Head of Department.
FFS the KRviatrix is an accountant, she works from home, is barely out of her PJ's by 1000 and earns not that much less than your exemplar Effo. And if she could be bothered, and became a executive or partner-type at KPMG or Deloitte, she'd be on similar coin to your skipper - and not have to deal with CAsA, the Doc for a Class 1 or the security muppets just to get to work!\
And if she could be bothered, and became a executive or partner-type at KPMG or Deloitte, she'd be on similar coin to your skipper - and not have to deal with CAsA, the Doc for a Class 1 or the security muppets just to get to work!
FFS the KRviatrix is an accountant, she works from home, is barely out of her PJ's by 1000 and earns not that much less than your exemplar Effo. And if she could be bothered, and became a executive or partner-type at KPMG or Deloitte, she'd be on similar coin to your skipper - and not have to deal with CAsA, the Doc for a Class 1 or the security muppets just to get to work!
If you work a standard roster under current conditions without any extra flying, at average credit it’s an average of 3.2 days per week. Less than the standard 5 day work week.
So what?
For that you get a salary which is about triple the Australian average salary, and puts you in the top 3% of Australian income earners. And that’s not including allowances or the bonus.
Now some may wish to work on average 3.5 days per week, which equates to about 75 hours per roster. Straight up that’s an extra 10% for roughly one extra day per roster.
If you work more you get paid more, it’s a pretty simple concept. However if you just work a standard roster you’re still making a considerable amount of money compared to the average income earner, comparable to mining engineers, lawyers and a lot of medical professionals.
So, to ensure you're keeping up with the better paid pilot positions you just work more hours?
Serious question, again. But other than the LHEA, which it has been categorically stated was never under consideration, what are these ‘better paid pilot positions’?
You won’t find a better paid domestic pilot position in the country, and very few global narrowbody non-contract positions would match pay. SH F/O rates after 4 years are similar to AA/DL 738 F/O rates after 6 years, although the US carriers have a few more yearly increments to nudge it up a bit more but not significantly so.
I just added in the extra hours pay as an example of what possible salary could be if you chose i to extra hours, but vice versa you can drop hours and have more time off if you so wish. Or just work the standard hours. Your choice.
So I’m failing to see these “better paid pilot positions” most of the people applying for mainline should be flocking to instead.
Last edited by dr dre; 21st Jun 2022 at 14:25.
Serious question, again. But other than the LHEA, which it has been categorically stated was never under consideration, what are these ‘better paid pilot positions’?
From a supply and demand perspective there’s plenty out there who are willing to take these positions.
Perhaps you could suggest to the REX pilots that they work an extra 4 days on top of the 4 or so they're rostered to make up for the last 4 years of tripe. 8 day week sounds reasonable.
Outside of the US, where they have the benefit of a restricted supply of pilots (1500hr rule and protectionist rules re: visas) which unfortunately we don’t have, there aren’t any I know of that are better for flying narrow bodies. If there are plenty perhaps people would be able to name them.