Network Aviation Revolving Door
Originally Posted by Jc31
was bae146 work with njs before the 737. These routes weren’t created for the qf 737
I am quite interested in getting something done about mobilising people towards a better agreement. This forum could be quite useful for that, but the infighting basically kills it. If we (qantas group employees anyway) could all remember that the enemy lives (10% of the time at any rate) in a toilet paper covered Mosman mansion rather than the flight deck of an affiliate airline we might actually manage that.
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: nowhere
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by onezeroonethree
Woopty doo. Imagine being an a320 NAA skipper sitting on your bay in Perth only to look left to see a FO in a plane without the word "Link" on the side of their plane earning more than you. Some command.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jester64
That’s very interesting. I’m sure it’s available somewhere but I’m lazy….what’s the base salary for a first year Network A320 Captain versus the base salary for a first year QF 737 F/O?. Not interested in overtime or anything, just base salary… cheers
First year QF 737 F/O
$145,238 for 696 hours.
extras include overtime which is typically +30% and bonuses. Allowances and super additional.
$145,238 for 696 hours.
extras include overtime which is typically +30% and bonuses. Allowances and super additional.
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: nowhere
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Australopithecus
First year QF 737 F/O
$145,238 for 696 hours.
.
$145,238 for 696 hours.
.
Originally Posted by Australopithecus
First year QF 737 F/O
$145,238 for 696 hours.
extras include overtime which is typically +30% and bonuses. Allowances and super additional.
$145,238 for 696 hours.
extras include overtime which is typically +30% and bonuses. Allowances and super additional.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
Last edited by dr dre; 20th Jul 2022 at 11:47.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dr dre
To re-iterate the 696hrs is 53hrs min guarantee, which (in non Covid times) is rare. Optimum hours are about 71 per BP and the long term history of the fleet usually reflects 65-71 hrs per BP. Taking an average of 68 that makes $184k first year pay on the standard roster. A few years ago the average pay over the fleet was just shy of $200k. And then additional hours above rostered, allowances and bonus on top of that.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: nowhere
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dr dre
To re-iterate the 696hrs is 53hrs min guarantee, which (in non Covid times) is rare. Optimum hours are about 71 per BP and the long term history of the fleet usually reflects 65-71 hrs per BP. Taking an average of 68 that makes $184k first year pay on the standard roster. A few years ago the average pay over the fleet was just shy of $200k. And then additional hours above rostered, allowances and bonus on top of that.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
With the rostered work hours at present some FOs will gross $230-240k this FY, not including bonus or allowances.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jester64
ok so a first year 320 skipper averaging 68 per month adds pretty much bugger all at network, but still grosses $199K (versus $184K). Obviously there comes a point where a 737 FO working his ass off makes more than a 320 skipper who does the same; but he won’t make what the skipper makes by doing just 53. Horses for courses.
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
so, to reiterate, QF First Officers on A LOT LESS than A320 NAA Captains sitting at the gate in Perth. Life style leading up to retirement I think I’ll take the NAA gig. Oh, that’s right, QF F/Os are on that salary for 15-18 years
15-18 year on the 73? Nah, most junior LH FO slot prior to Covid was 3 years, but I think for new joiners now 8 years is an accurate figure.
The NAA Captain could be working 2 half days a week for that money, or they could doing 5 long day sits at mines. In reality they’re probably working roughly as much as a standard SH FO is and being paid similar. That’s when the 320 isn’t doing air returns or waiting at outports for maintenance. But the guy on the mainline list has the capability to earn far more in their career and fly more different types than someone who chooses NAA. If you have less than 10 years to go and are tossing up between the two you may choose NAA for a quick command to see out your days, but anything longer than 20 years to go and you’d be nuts to choose NAA.
Anyway look at the flow of people to determine what’s the better option. How many mainline pilots now resigning to go to NAA? (Hint, it’s zero). Versus how many NAA pilots resigning to go to mainline or elsewhere (Hint, it’s plenty).
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dr dre
The last pay figure I get for NAA Capt is $185k on the last EBA rate. Even if there’s a bit of a pay increase for the 320 that’s still in the ballpark of what a 737 FO makes for a standard roster after 4 years, without any bonus scheme available.
15-18 year on the 73? Nah, most junior LH FO slot prior to Covid was 3 years, but I think for new joiners now 8 years is an accurate figure.
The NAA Captain could be working 2 half days a week for that money, or they could doing 5 long day sits at mines. In reality they’re probably working roughly as much as a standard SH FO is and being paid similar. That’s when the 320 isn’t doing air returns or waiting at outports for maintenance. But the guy on the mainline list has the capability to earn far more in their career and fly more different types than someone who chooses NAA. If you have less than 10 years to go and are tossing up between the two you may choose NAA for a quick command to see out your days, but anything longer than 20 years to go and you’d be nuts to choose NAA.
Anyway look at the flow of people to determine what’s the better option. How many mainline pilots now resigning to go to NAA? (Hint, it’s zero). Versus how many NAA pilots resigning to go to mainline or elsewhere (Hint, it’s plenty).
15-18 year on the 73? Nah, most junior LH FO slot prior to Covid was 3 years, but I think for new joiners now 8 years is an accurate figure.
The NAA Captain could be working 2 half days a week for that money, or they could doing 5 long day sits at mines. In reality they’re probably working roughly as much as a standard SH FO is and being paid similar. That’s when the 320 isn’t doing air returns or waiting at outports for maintenance. But the guy on the mainline list has the capability to earn far more in their career and fly more different types than someone who chooses NAA. If you have less than 10 years to go and are tossing up between the two you may choose NAA for a quick command to see out your days, but anything longer than 20 years to go and you’d be nuts to choose NAA.
Anyway look at the flow of people to determine what’s the better option. How many mainline pilots now resigning to go to NAA? (Hint, it’s zero). Versus how many NAA pilots resigning to go to mainline or elsewhere (Hint, it’s plenty).
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: nowhere
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with both. Mainline if you are young enough and want to remain in AUS forever. NAA if you are chasing a quick command / Airbus time to take overseas and not look back. Or for those returning who have a command and want to work as little as possible without worrying if next month’s hours is going to be enough to make ends meet
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, do the network guys only work 2 days a week? Or is that BS? QF wants pilots working 1000 hours a year, if Network guys aren’t doing that, I’d suspect that they eventually will, you can count on it. I guess it all depends on expansion/retirements etc….. with regard to quick commands. Plus, where in the world do you go these days?
Anyway, I’d take QF SO for 150k spending my life in London/LA/Honolulu etc…… for a few less bucks, than another 5am departure to Newman with 4 bars on my shoulder. But whatever floats your boat.
Anyway, I’d take QF SO for 150k spending my life in London/LA/Honolulu etc…… for a few less bucks, than another 5am departure to Newman with 4 bars on my shoulder. But whatever floats your boat.
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
good luck with your multiple types and QF brainwashing Doctor. I’ve flown 8 types everywhere around the World and would still take an A320 at Network over your F/O slot
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SandyPalms
So, do the network guys only work 2 days a week? Or is that BS? QF wants pilots working 1000 hours a year. If Network guys aren’t doing that, I’d suspect that they eventually will, you can count on it.
have command experience, unlike the QF career F/Os
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
I’ve flown 8 types everywhere around the World and would still take an A320 at Network over your F/O slot
All the guys coming down from Hong Kong would be millionaires many times over. Probably not liable for tax for a few years with credits from whilst abroad. Hope they’re enjoying themselves. Great flying weather and a visible horizon will be a nice change.
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
and then, my friend, people wanting lifestyle will leave. Difference is, theyll
have command experience, unlike the QF career F/Os
have command experience, unlike the QF career F/Os
Like I wrote a few pages ago. Come into Network, quick experience and leave... to only return to the next Startup being used against those who stayed in Australia.
ps this thread is an absolute pisser
Originally Posted by SandyPalms
So, do the network guys only work 2 days a week? Or is that BS?
With shortages and lack of crew atm NAA pilots would be flying a lot more than 2 mining runs per week for the same money (minus a day off payment). And crewing numbers are biting especially in training.
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
and then, my friend, people wanting lifestyle will leave. Difference is, theyll
have command experience, unlike the QF career F/Os
have command experience, unlike the QF career F/Os
Yeah, you could get command hours quicker at NAA (although I’d say 7-8 years still) and head off to make money overseas, especially seeing Asia still isn’t due to reach peak pre covid capacity for another few years.
Last edited by dr dre; 20th Jul 2022 at 14:08.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gnadenburg
All the guys coming down from Hong Kong would be millionaires many times over. Probably not liable for tax for a few years with credits from whilst abroad. Hope they’re enjoying themselves. Great flying weather and a visible horizon will be a nice change.
