Qantas Project Sunrise Airbus order 2 May 2022?

[Going Nowhere]

Originally Posted by SandyPalms

Ollie. They are 2 different orders for A321xlr's.

I've also heard that they are different engine types. JQ CFM and QF P&W

There is an earlier order for A321LR’s and now an order for XLR’s.

• Demonstration of this flexibility with confirmation today that Jetstar will convert 20 of its existing A320 family order to A321XLRs, which have the potential to fly short haul international routes, with delivery to start in the second half of calendar 2024. (The first tranche from this existing order – 18 A321LRs – are due to arrive from July 2022 onwards.)

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/me...pe-its-future/

[Ollie Onion]

Originally Posted by SandyPalms

Ollie. They are 2 different orders for A321xlr's.

I've also heard that they are different engine types. JQ CFM and QF P&W

Gotcha, thanks

[JRK]

Wasn't the original 744 flight canned because even the premium class pax found it to be too exhausting?

[mustafagander]

Hey Andrasz,
Fuel burn goes almost exponential for ultra long haul ops.
As I recall it, the extra burn per ton for B744 SYD-DFW was about 650Kg/ton uplifted. That refers to fuel or payload coz fuel is really just house bricks until you burn it. Hence it is way more fuel efficient to make a stop at the half way point. Think about covering a tempo T/Z at DFW ex SYD, about 8 tons.
One day the greenies will wake up to this and go nuts about ultra long haul.

[BuzzBox]

Originally Posted by mustafagander

As I recall it, the extra burn per ton for B744 SYD-DFW was about 650Kg/ton uplifted.

The A350 is a lot more fuel efficient than that ol' gas guzzler. On an 11 hour LHR-HKG sector, the correction is around 230 kg/tonne.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

12 A350 frames would be about 100ish Captains. Any speculation how senior these slots would likely go? ie don't hold out if your number isn't < 300

It’ll be some years before the first slots are even out. The A380 is still a higher category aircraft, so the A350 positions would go junior to 300. And with the 787 still there, and a number of 330s as well (their numbers will start declining soon but with movement to other fleets I’d imagine there’ll still be a need to train onto the aircraft for a while) in a few years we really could start to see some quite junior LH commands.

A321 commands could be enticing for senior WB FOs (or those not wanting to endure the dodgy seat back on the 73) or even those 65+ bidding back with an easier conversion compared to 73.

The numbers of over 65s who return to SH has always been small. The fact the 321 would be doing quite a bit of BoC with less opportunities for inflight rest and the usual busy domestic flying would not be that enticing for a long time long hauler. Coming back to multi sector days, aircraft swaps, quick turnarounds, battling weather, MELs, delays non stop is usually not the desire right before retirement.

[AQIS Boigu]

With all the excitement nobody has mentioned anything about B scale for new joiners

[Potsie Weber]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

12 A350 frames would be about 100ish Captains. Any speculation how senior these slots would likely go? ie don't hold out if your number isn't < 300

A321 commands could be enticing for senior WB FOs (or those not wanting to endure the dodgy seat back on the 73) or even those 65+ bidding back with an easier conversion compared to 73.

The first 90 slots on the A330/A350 SFF are reserved to existing A330 crew (stated in the EA). The company also said there is no cross bidding B787 to A330/A350 and vice versa. If vacancies were out today for a Sydney only base, you could see Captains with seniority up to the 500s

[morno]

Originally Posted by CCA

QF royalty is likely boarding the plane in Perth so they can have a jolly.

Having QF staff depart from France was likely a bit risky Covid wise.

Well I don’t think it’d be much of a jolly, when the back is only full of test equipment and a few economy seats with no wall lining.

Good to finally see Qantas order some new aircraft though, hope it translates into some movement for you all.

[C441]

Interestingly I was told recently that the A380 positions may not necessarily go to the most senior. (I'm not privy to lists anymore so can only go on what I'm told.)
Most senior 330 pilots want the 350 slots, 737 pilots want a 330 or 787 (depending upon lifestyle domestic vs international & Boeing familiarity), 787 mob happy to stay there, leaving some of the more senior mid-range 330 pilots (say number 40-80 on type) the opportunity to jag a 380 with a relatively comfortable conversion and more time at home than they get now.…..

[Brakerider]

Originally Posted by dr dre

The numbers of over 65s who return to SH has always been small. The fact the 321 would be doing quite a bit of BoC with less opportunities for inflight rest and the usual busy domestic flying would not be that enticing for a long time long hauler. Coming back to multi sector days, aircraft swaps, quick turnarounds, battling weather, MELs, delays non stop is usually not the desire right before retirement.

Will Over 65s be able to return to SH if the 321 is doing longer haul flying?

[For goodness sake]

Originally Posted by TimmyTee

Isn't it slightly ironic that an empty 1000 is flying to perth and not direct to Sydney (presuming it will head straight there after perth)?

They would have been timing the SYD arrival for the scenic/promotional arrival and photography over Sydney Harbour. Morning sun on the Opera House Sails... Also probably the fuel calculation made sense.

[mickjoebill]

I read a pollie claiming sunrise flights can only operate from Kingsford Smith, because the runway at the new Western airport is too short.
True?
Mjb

[Lapon]

Originally Posted by mickjoebill

I read a pollie claiming sunrise flights can only operate from Kingsford Smith, because the runway at the new Western airport is too short.
True?
Mjb

At 3700 metres long its hard to imagine runway length being an issue

[For goodness sake]

Runway 34L at SYD is 3962m. The A350-1000 still has the same MTOW even if most of it is kerosene. So if QF1 LHR direct can only use that runway and not one 262m shorter at Western SYD Qantas better do a rethink on safety margins. Hahaha...

[davidclarke]

Not sure how true it is, but there is a rumour going around that Airbus can’t certify the A350 centre tank modifications required for project sunrise. Could project sunrise become project sunset?

[cloudsurfng]

Originally Posted by Buckshot

A321 commands could be enticing for senior WB FOs (or those not wanting to endure the dodgy seat back on the 73) or even those 65+ bidding back with an easier conversion compared to 73.

WB FO’s who think they are waiting for a 321 CMD could be in for a rude shock if they haven’t read the SHEA. I’m unsure when the variation went through so perhaps it was all a bit of an unknown when this post was made.

every 321 CMD and FO slot (apart from the management stooges and initial trainers) will be taken by a current 737 pilot.

for everyone’s sake I hope the rumours around the centre tank are false, but it would be funny as to see Alan’s baby get flushed down the drain. I’m sure we’ll still get 350’s anyway, and I’m sure QF has negotiated significant penalties if Airbus can’t get the thing flying

[BuzzBox]

Originally Posted by davidclarke

Not sure how true it is, but there is a rumour going around that Airbus can’t certify the A350 centre tank modifications required for project sunrise. Could project sunrise become project sunset?

Aren't the mods the same as those already certified for the -900ULR operated by SQ?

[maggot]

Originally Posted by cloudsurfng

WB FO’s who think they are waiting for a 321 CMD could be in for a rude shock if they haven’t read the SHEA. I’m unsure when the variation went through so perhaps it was all a bit of an unknown when this post was made.

every 321 CMD and FO slot (apart from the management stooges and initial trainers) will be taken by a current 737 pilot.

for everyone’s sake I hope the rumours around the centre tank are false, but it would be funny as to see Alan’s baby get flushed down the drain. I’m sure we’ll still get 350’s anyway, and I’m sure QF has negotiated significant penalties if Airbus can’t get the thing flying

First 20 321s are slated domestic
Seems that over 65s will be 'allowed' on fleet since it's domestic. The regional configured jets will be additional to these and will do near Asia etc - meaning any over 65s will be automatically be given all the nice daylight domestic flying and the rest do all the BOC 2 crew home flights.

[morno]

Originally Posted by cloudsurfng

WB FO’s who think they are waiting for a 321 CMD could be in for a rude shock if they haven’t read the SHEA. I’m unsure when the variation went through so perhaps it was all a bit of an unknown when this post was made.

every 321 CMD and FO slot (apart from the management stooges and initial trainers) will be taken by a current 737 pilot.

for everyone’s sake I hope the rumours around the centre tank are false, but it would be funny as to see Alan’s baby get flushed down the drain. I’m sure we’ll still get 350’s anyway, and I’m sure QF has negotiated significant penalties if Airbus can’t get the thing flying

That’s assuming they get enough takers from the 737. Given it’s only 20 to begin with, good chance that a lot of crew will be happy to continue on the 737 for the time being.