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Qantas Project Sunrise Airbus order 2 May 2022?

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Qantas Project Sunrise Airbus order 2 May 2022?

Old 2nd May 2022, 08:32
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms
Ollie. They are 2 different orders for A321xlr's.

I've also heard that they are different engine types. JQ CFM and QF P&W
There is an earlier order for A321LRís and now an order for XLRís.

  • Demonstration of this flexibility with confirmation today that Jetstar will convert 20 of its existing A320 family order to A321XLRs, which have the potential to fly short haul international routes, with delivery to start in the second half of calendar 2024. (The first tranche from this existing order Ė 18 A321LRs Ė are due to arrive from July 2022 onwards.)
https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/me...pe-its-future/
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Old 2nd May 2022, 09:09
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms
Ollie. They are 2 different orders for A321xlr's.

I've also heard that they are different engine types. JQ CFM and QF P&W

Gotcha, thanks
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Old 2nd May 2022, 10:00
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Wasn't the original 744 flight canned because even the premium class pax found it to be too exhausting?

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Old 2nd May 2022, 10:46
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Hey Andrasz,
Fuel burn goes almost exponential for ultra long haul ops.
As I recall it, the extra burn per ton for B744 SYD-DFW was about 650Kg/ton uplifted. That refers to fuel or payload coz fuel is really just house bricks until you burn it. Hence it is way more fuel efficient to make a stop at the half way point. Think about covering a tempo T/Z at DFW ex SYD, about 8 tons.
One day the greenies will wake up to this and go nuts about ultra long haul.
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Old 2nd May 2022, 11:49
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Originally Posted by mustafagander
As I recall it, the extra burn per ton for B744 SYD-DFW was about 650Kg/ton uplifted.
The A350 is a lot more fuel efficient than that ol' gas guzzler. On an 11 hour LHR-HKG sector, the correction is around 230 kg/tonne.
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Old 2nd May 2022, 12:47
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Originally Posted by Buckshot
12 A350 frames would be about 100ish Captains. Any speculation how senior these slots would likely go? ie don't hold out if your number isn't < 300
Itíll be some years before the first slots are even out. The A380 is still a higher category aircraft, so the A350 positions would go junior to 300. And with the 787 still there, and a number of 330s as well (their numbers will start declining soon but with movement to other fleets Iíd imagine thereíll still be a need to train onto the aircraft for a while) in a few years we really could start to see some quite junior LH commands.

A321 commands could be enticing for senior WB FOs (or those not wanting to endure the dodgy seat back on the 73) or even those 65+ bidding back with an easier conversion compared to 73.
The numbers of over 65s who return to SH has always been small. The fact the 321 would be doing quite a bit of BoC with less opportunities for inflight rest and the usual busy domestic flying would not be that enticing for a long time long hauler. Coming back to multi sector days, aircraft swaps, quick turnarounds, battling weather, MELs, delays non stop is usually not the desire right before retirement.
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Old 2nd May 2022, 14:22
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With all the excitement nobody has mentioned anything about B scale for new joiners
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Old 2nd May 2022, 23:31
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Originally Posted by Buckshot
12 A350 frames would be about 100ish Captains. Any speculation how senior these slots would likely go? ie don't hold out if your number isn't < 300

A321 commands could be enticing for senior WB FOs (or those not wanting to endure the dodgy seat back on the 73) or even those 65+ bidding back with an easier conversion compared to 73.
The first 90 slots on the A330/A350 SFF are reserved to existing A330 crew (stated in the EA). The company also said there is no cross bidding B787 to A330/A350 and vice versa. If vacancies were out today for a Sydney only base, you could see Captains with seniority up to the 500s
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Old 3rd May 2022, 02:38
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Originally Posted by CCA
QF royalty is likely boarding the plane in Perth so they can have a jolly.

Having QF staff depart from France was likely a bit risky Covid wise.
Well I donít think itíd be much of a jolly, when the back is only full of test equipment and a few economy seats with no wall lining.

Good to finally see Qantas order some new aircraft though, hope it translates into some movement for you all.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 03:37
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Interestingly I was told recently that the A380 positions may not necessarily go to the most senior. (I'm not privy to lists anymore so can only go on what I'm told.)
Most senior 330 pilots want the 350 slots, 737 pilots want a 330 or 787 (depending upon lifestyle domestic vs international & Boeing familiarity), 787 mob happy to stay there, leaving some of the more senior mid-range 330 pilots (say number 40-80 on type) the opportunity to jag a 380 with a relatively comfortable conversion and more time at home than they get now.Ö..
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Old 3rd May 2022, 06:32
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Originally Posted by dr dre


The numbers of over 65s who return to SH has always been small. The fact the 321 would be doing quite a bit of BoC with less opportunities for inflight rest and the usual busy domestic flying would not be that enticing for a long time long hauler. Coming back to multi sector days, aircraft swaps, quick turnarounds, battling weather, MELs, delays non stop is usually not the desire right before retirement.
Will Over 65s be able to return to SH if the 321 is doing longer haul flying?
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Old 4th May 2022, 01:13
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Red face

Originally Posted by TimmyTee
Isn't it slightly ironic that an empty 1000 is flying to perth and not direct to Sydney (presuming it will head straight there after perth)?
They would have been timing the SYD arrival for the scenic/promotional arrival and photography over Sydney Harbour. Morning sun on the Opera House Sails... Also probably the fuel calculation made sense.
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Old 5th May 2022, 10:19
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I read a pollie claiming sunrise flights can only operate from Kingsford Smith, because the runway at the new Western airport is too short.
True?
Mjb
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Old 5th May 2022, 11:22
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill
I read a pollie claiming sunrise flights can only operate from Kingsford Smith, because the runway at the new Western airport is too short.
True?
Mjb
At 3700 metres long its hard to imagine runway length being an issue
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Old 5th May 2022, 17:56
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Runway 34L at SYD is 3962m. The A350-1000 still has the same MTOW even if most of it is kerosene. So if QF1 LHR direct can only use that runway and not one 262m shorter at Western SYD Qantas better do a rethink on safety margins. Hahaha...
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Old 11th Jul 2023, 08:43
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Not sure how true it is, but there is a rumour going around that Airbus canít certify the A350 centre tank modifications required for project sunrise. Could project sunrise become project sunset?
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Old 11th Jul 2023, 22:06
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Originally Posted by Buckshot

A321 commands could be enticing for senior WB FOs (or those not wanting to endure the dodgy seat back on the 73) or even those 65+ bidding back with an easier conversion compared to 73.

WB FOís who think they are waiting for a 321 CMD could be in for a rude shock if they havenít read the SHEA. Iím unsure when the variation went through so perhaps it was all a bit of an unknown when this post was made.

every 321 CMD and FO slot (apart from the management stooges and initial trainers) will be taken by a current 737 pilot.

for everyoneís sake I hope the rumours around the centre tank are false, but it would be funny as to see Alanís baby get flushed down the drain. Iím sure weíll still get 350ís anyway, and Iím sure QF has negotiated significant penalties if Airbus canít get the thing flying
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Old 11th Jul 2023, 22:53
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Originally Posted by davidclarke
Not sure how true it is, but there is a rumour going around that Airbus canít certify the A350 centre tank modifications required for project sunrise. Could project sunrise become project sunset?
Aren't the mods the same as those already certified for the -900ULR operated by SQ?
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Old 12th Jul 2023, 00:10
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Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
WB FOís who think they are waiting for a 321 CMD could be in for a rude shock if they havenít read the SHEA. Iím unsure when the variation went through so perhaps it was all a bit of an unknown when this post was made.

every 321 CMD and FO slot (apart from the management stooges and initial trainers) will be taken by a current 737 pilot.

for everyoneís sake I hope the rumours around the centre tank are false, but it would be funny as to see Alanís baby get flushed down the drain. Iím sure weíll still get 350ís anyway, and Iím sure QF has negotiated significant penalties if Airbus canít get the thing flying
First 20 321s are slated domestic
Seems that over 65s will be 'allowed' on fleet since it's domestic. The regional configured jets will be additional to these and will do near Asia etc - meaning any over 65s will be automatically be given all the nice daylight domestic flying and the rest do all the BOC 2 crew home flights.

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Old 12th Jul 2023, 00:25
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Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
WB FOís who think they are waiting for a 321 CMD could be in for a rude shock if they havenít read the SHEA. Iím unsure when the variation went through so perhaps it was all a bit of an unknown when this post was made.

every 321 CMD and FO slot (apart from the management stooges and initial trainers) will be taken by a current 737 pilot.

for everyoneís sake I hope the rumours around the centre tank are false, but it would be funny as to see Alanís baby get flushed down the drain. Iím sure weíll still get 350ís anyway, and Iím sure QF has negotiated significant penalties if Airbus canít get the thing flying
Thatís assuming they get enough takers from the 737. Given itís only 20 to begin with, good chance that a lot of crew will be happy to continue on the 737 for the time being.
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