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Qantas terminates long haul cabin crew agreement, demands more flexibility

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Qantas terminates long haul cabin crew agreement, demands more flexibility

Old 22nd Jan 2022, 14:25
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Originally Posted by Mr Proach
Why shouldn't being a flight attendant be a 100K a year job?
Exactly. Entry level unskilled FIFO job would easily get that with much better roster stability. Time away from home, long shifts, night shifts, weekends etc, a premium for this job is a given. Just the fact of constantly dealing with moronic passengers, I wouldn’t do it for twice that.
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Old 22nd Jan 2022, 22:52
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That's where I find it amusing when management start bleating about how the terms of an EBA is killing them. Do they not know what the initials stand for. It is an AGREEMENT, usually reached after protracted BARGAINING. It means both sides said yes.They always seem surprised and put out that the other side wants them to stick to their side of the agreement when they decide they now want to say no.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 01:26
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Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was
That's where I find it amusing when management start bleating about how the terms of an EBA is killing them. Do they not know what the initials stand for. It is an AGREEMENT, usually reached after protracted BARGAINING. It means both sides said yes.They always seem surprised and put out that the other side wants them to stick to their side of the agreement when they decide they now want to say no.
Agreements are not open ended, they have fixed terms. The maximum term for an agreement is four years. The terms of an agreement continue past the expiry date until the Commission replaces or terminates the agreement. In this case, there was bargaining for a new agreement that has resulted in Qantas applying for the agreement to be terminated. The FAAA legal team should know these provisions in the Act and notified members of the risk of not coming to an agreement.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 05:22
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Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was
That's where I find it amusing when management start bleating about how the terms of an EBA is killing them. Do they not know what the initials stand for. It is an AGREEMENT, usually reached after protracted BARGAINING. It means both sides said yes.They always seem surprised and put out that the other side wants them to stick to their side of the agreement when they decide they now want to say no.
Hasnt it always been the same i.e.when it suits,its good but when it doesnt,its a militant union that doesnt want to negotiate!
I personally know a couple of short serving intl flt attendants who havent flown since the pandemic started but have found employment elsewhere & right now,after seeing what is in store for them have decided they will stay in the jobs they have,they just couldnt be bothered being front line workers with a company that thinks they own them & continually want more for less.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 07:03
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Originally Posted by morno
What he said. Being a flight attendant is not a $100k a year job, and it shouldn’t be. If the remaining cabin crew think they can possibly maintain what they get now without any flexibility, they’re dreaming.
I love these types of comments.

Yet if anyone dared suggest a pilot is not worth $400k+ there would be a Pprune uprising…..
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 07:21
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Realistically, the days of highly paid unionised cabin crew are numbered unless the traveling public is willing to pay higher fares.
Yes and the days of highly paid middle management and outsized bonuses should therefore also be numbered unless the travelling public is willing to pay higher fares.

If HR want to terminate an agreement, terminate all salary contracts, bonus entitlements, option awards etc for managers. Make everyone start from scratch, based on the current 'COVID environment'. When the good times return, and they will, guess who'll be 'winning'. It won't be the suckers on an agreement.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 07:39
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Why shouldn't being a flight attendant be a 100K a year job?
The salary we receive is an indication of how hard it is to replace us,

Take someone off the street and two weeks later they can be line training as cabin crew on an aircraft. A week later they are checked to line. They may spend some time away from home, for which they will be paid extra. They most certainly will work weekends and public holidays.

Entry level unskilled FIFO job would easily get that with much better roster stability. Time away from home, long shifts, night shifts, weekends etc, a premium for this job is a given
ENTRY level, UNSKILLED earning $100 K a year. Can you post a link?

Mining staff are on site for maybe two weeks, working 12 hour shifts for their swing, not quite like being cabin crew.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 09:02
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Originally Posted by Arthur D
I love these types of comments.

Yet if anyone dared suggest a pilot is not worth $400k+ there would be a Pprune uprising…..
I certainly don’t think that a pilot is worth $400K+ either.

Why don’t I think a flight attendant should be a $100k a year job? Because it requires very little training in the grand scheme. And it’s very uncompetitive compared to the rest of the world.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 09:27
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
ENTRY level, UNSKILLED earning $100 K a year. Can you post a link?
https://www.seek.com.au/fifo-no-experience-jobs

Having worked FIFO, albeit many moons ago, I was somewhat surprised that walk-ons could pull down that sort of money.

Originally Posted by Icarus2001
Mining staff are on site for maybe two weeks, working 12 hour shifts for their swing, not quite like being cabin crew.
That is the crux of any comparison - hours worked. How many hours a year would a cabin crew member clock?
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 09:29
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
The salary we receive is an indication of how hard it is to replace us,

Take someone off the street and two weeks later they can be line training as cabin crew on an aircraft. A week later they are checked to line. They may spend some time away from home, for which they will be paid extra. They most certainly will work weekends and public holidays.



ENTRY level, UNSKILLED earning $100 K a year. Can you post a link?

Mining staff are on site for maybe two weeks, working 12 hour shifts for their swing, not quite like being cabin crew.
Green dump truck operator. Easily over $100k, most closer to $150k package. Site admin, offsider etc. Only need to be on more than $35 an hour working 2:1 to earn over $100k. Site/shift allowance for any FIFO is around $25k, so that brings the work rate to about $30 per hour. $30 per hour is an unskilled pay rate and easily achieved across many industries. International cabin crew spend a lot of time away from home, similar to any FIFO role but come and go more frequently. If they spend a chunk of that time away sitting by a pool at a hotel, then that is just a perk of the job to suit an airline schedule. My view is you are at work when you sign on at your base to when you return and sign off.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 11:13
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International cabin crew spend a lot of time away from home, similar to any FIFO role but come and go more frequently.
What about domestic or FIFO cabin crew?

I am not sure being away from home staying in a five star hotel, drinking duty free and sitting by the pool compares to two weeks in a mine site donga.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 11:32
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
What about domestic or FIFO cabin crew?

I am not sure being away from home staying in a five star hotel, drinking duty free and sitting by the pool compares to two weeks in a mine site donga.
Mainline domestic QF cabin crew are on around $30 an hour, plus meal allowances overtime, weekend rates etc. Again it’s nothing special. Work max hours, weekends, max overnights etc and they could earn well over $100k.

$100k plus for a basic job that is shift work, very unpleasant at times (cleaning up vomit in an aircraft dunny), odd hours, and significant time away from home is entirely justified. I don’t care whether they are being paid to sit by a pool for days because the way the schedule works or not. Good job for some and many love it, but not me, couldn’t pay me enough to put up with the crap that cabin crew deal with almost every flight, no matter how good the margaritas are at the other end. I’d much rather drive a dump truck.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 13:31
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You forget cabin crew are the coal face of marketing for the airline. I wouldn't call that unskilled. Poor cabin crew mean customers choose other airlines. I know it's a big factor for when I fly.

Qantas used to have great business class cabin crew. Last time I flew Qantas a few years ago one of the crew told me she won't even fly Qantas as she hated management. She was great at her job and very friendly but said this while we were chatting waiting for an airbridge. Sort of put me off. Nowadays all things equal I will choose another airline. Just flew family of 5 here business class to Canada via aircanada over Qantas who parallel the route. The way a company treats its staff is reflected in how well they do their job. To me Qantas just seems mean and nasty but it may be because I read these threads.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 18:50
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Your flight attendant may have been reacting to the moral hypocrisy that we get from management constantly. Endless moaning about EBAs, pay freezes etc, yet taking eye-watering bonuses every year. Boris Johnson is repugnant in the UK for the same reasons that our management is: say one thing-do another.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 19:09
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I hope that QF management thanked and appreciated the effort of cabin crew who flew the repatriation flights, especially the flights ex Covid hot spots such as DEL, Howard Springs, isn't a 5 star hotel.

Then again, did they care? after all it was government that was paying.

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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 22:51
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Is it fair and reasonable, that the standard of conditions and treatment the flight attendants receive from management sets the standard of service for the company's customers?
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 00:00
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Last time I flew Qantas a few years ago one of the crew told me she won't even fly Qantas as she hated management. She was great at her job and very friendly but said this while we were chatting waiting for an airbridge.
"Hated" is a strong word but swap that for "have no respect for…." and you start to understand why many Qantas staff are incredibly loyal to the brand but not the management.
When front line staff in a service industry are constantly treated in an adversarial manner, it's a not surprising that they have little time for their managers and it's remarkable that most of them (despite the often derogatory comments) continue to provide a very good service. Real leadership starts from the top and rarely successfully involves an adversarial environment.
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 01:49
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Originally Posted by C441
"Hated" is a strong word but swap that for "have no respect for…." and you start to understand why many Qantas staff are incredibly loyal to the brand but not the management.
When front line staff in a service industry are constantly treated in an adversarial manner, it's a not surprising that they have little time for their managers and it's remarkable that most of them (despite the often derogatory comments) continue to provide a very good service. Real leadership starts from the top and rarely successfully involves an adversarial environment.
Very true. It is also worth noting that this is a concept that cuts both ways. An employee association that always applies an adversarial approach to industrial relations will most likely not be treated with respect. That is not to say acting in an adversarial way should always be avoided, just that it should not necessarily be the first tool of choice in every situation.
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 23:40
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Not trying to highjack this CC thread, but I'm interested to hear others opinion. At my outfit, 90% Of the guys and girls I fly with ​​​​​are steadfast in there position that they will never ever fly 90+ hours a month as a standard again. I personally agree 100%. Spending time at home with the kid's is so precious and no amount of over time etc is worth losing that. There will be some that see the allure of $$ and will return to chasing over time and working on their day Off etc. but I actually have faith that many won't. The 4 day work week is already being talked about and implemented in other countries outside of aviation, yet we are expected to give up more, give up more flexibility, bend over for this bigger pineapple please.
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Old 25th Jan 2022, 00:10
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Originally Posted by cLeArIcE
Not trying to highjack this CC thread, but I'm interested to hear others opinion. At my outfit, 90% Of the guys and girls I fly with ​​​​​are steadfast in there position that they will never ever fly 90+ hours a month as a standard again. I personally agree 100%. Spending time at home with the kid's is so precious and no amount of over time etc is worth losing that. There will be some that see the allure of $$ and will return to chasing over time and working on their day Off etc. but I actually have faith that many won't. The 4 day work week is already being talked about and implemented in other countries outside of aviation, yet we are expected to give up more, give up more flexibility, bend over for this bigger pineapple please.
A couple of interest rate rises will change their minds.
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