Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Covid Vaccines and Pilots

Old 19th Jul 2022, 01:35
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
The older strains still exist, and current boosters are effective against then. the vacccines ARE being constatly developed, and the latest ones will be aimed at the newer varients.
No-one says any of this is perfect, but the veilied idea that it's all some kind of con is where it gets silly.
Never said it is one big con job. Just asking logical questions and you gave a reasonably logical answer. But..if youíre being vaccinated for the original strain, why should you be again boosted for the original strain? Is the vaccineís effectiveness ultra short-term? At this rate, can we see a 10th booster by this time next year? Iím fast likening this to the majority of profits made by Airbus in their maintenance/parts business..but for big pharma. So yeah, no con there. So, why then are boosters being PUSHED to combat variants? Are they withholding the ď..constantly developedĒ batches for when the current batches are used up? Sounds like a sound business plan.
In any case, youíre right. This whole charade is not perfect. And I take a massive issue on that. 1, because we have stood our industry and livelihoods and indeed the countyís economy and personal freedoms on itís head with a solution that hasnít worked and most importantly 2. weíve had to inject this crap into our bodies as many times as our employers required in order to keep working for them.
Sal-e is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2022, 02:32
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Above and beyond
Posts: 1,083
Received 35 Likes on 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Sal-e View Post
Is the vaccineís effectiveness ultra short-term?...So, why then are boosters being PUSHED to combat variants? Are they withholding the ď..constantly developedĒ batches for when the current batches are used up?
As I understand it, the current vaccines (designed for the original variant/s) still provide good long-term effectiveness against severe illness/death caused by the newer variants, but only short-term effectiveness (perhaps a month) against infection. Boosters are being 'pushed' to prevent the health system from becoming overloaded over the winter period, when other illnesses such as the 'flu are far more prevalent, resulting in more hospital admissions. They are also being pushed in an attempt to keep the number of cases (and employee absences due to isolation requirements) as low as reasonably practical.

Vaccines are not being "constantly developed [in] batches" to keep up with the new variants. The vaccines that are currently available were designed for the original variant/s and there are new vaccines under trial for one of the earlier Omicron variants (BA.3 as I recall). A multi-variant vaccine is also under development. The problem is that it takes time for new vaccines to be designed, manufactured and trialled, and the virus keeps mutating faster than new vaccines can be developed. As a result, the vaccine manufacturers and regulators are always a step or two behind the virus. It is by no means a perfect system, but it's the best we've got.
BuzzBox is online now  
Old 19th Jul 2022, 03:39
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Sal-e View Post
Never said it is one big con job. Just asking logical questions and you gave a reasonably logical answer. But..if you’re being vaccinated for the original strain, why should you be again boosted for the original strain? Is the vaccine’s effectiveness ultra short-term? At this rate, can we see a 10th booster by this time next year? I’m fast likening this to the majority of profits made by Airbus in their maintenance/parts business..but for big pharma. So yeah, no con there. So, why then are boosters being PUSHED to combat variants? Are they withholding the “..constantly developed” batches for when the current batches are used up? Sounds like a sound business plan.
In any case, you’re right. This whole charade is not perfect. And I take a massive issue on that. 1, because we have stood our industry and livelihoods and indeed the county’s economy and personal freedoms on it’s head with a solution that hasn’t worked and most importantly 2. we’ve had to inject this crap into our bodies as many times as our employers required in order to keep working for them.

1,000,000 Americans are dead. If America had dealt with this as we did, something like 700,000 of them would still be alive. We, yes imperfectly (as is anythng) did our best under the circumstances and no doubt a lot of people are still with us as a result. Exactley who would you have been OK with dying who didn't? It DID work, every but as well as could have been hoped.
And "This crap" has been a huge part in making it work.

Last edited by Wizofoz; 19th Jul 2022 at 05:14.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2022, 06:00
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 887
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
1,000,000 Americans are dead. If America had dealt with this as we did, something like 700,000 of them would still be alive. We, yes imperfectly (as is anythng) did our best under the circumstances and no doubt a lot of people are still with us as a result. Exactley who would you have been OK with dying who didn't? It DID work, every but as well as could have been hoped.
And "This crap" has been a huge part in making it work.
Oh the USA!

As you can clearly see above - The We Did It Better.

WA far tighter iron ring and vax rates v QLD far less restrictive and if I recall not even a booster program when they opened.

Yet WA has higher per capita death rate than QLD (admit QLD has had a bad week/wave, but WA will follow).

If you look it up they have had a Omnicron vax - but they do not want to use it as the virus is too similar and they fear if it is too close to the previous and after a while your imune system will think it is the same as the last & not trigger the spike protein response (crying wolf).
Bend alot is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2022, 22:04
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-...ated/101253540

Between January 1 and June 28 there were 2,171 deaths in the state related to COVID-19, just over half of the more than 4,200 such deaths recorded in Victoria since the pandemic began
The data — provided to the ABC by Victoria's health department — showed that 799 people (37 per cent) who died during that period of time with COVID-19 had received no vaccine doses, while just 58 (3 per cent) of those who died had received four vaccine doses.
Troo believer is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2022, 22:20
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sierra village
Posts: 534
Received 11 Likes on 9 Posts
What worries me is the goalpost shifting of the outcomes of vaccination.

Early on Pfizer claimed 96% efficacy in preventing Covid infections. Now, it’s all about minimising the symptoms, not actually stopping it.

So, as I write, I’m Covid positive with three boosters (I.e. 4 jabs in total). The ONLY people, I personally know who have tested positive have also had 4 jabs. What are the odds? Should I go buy a lotto ticket?

Oh, and by the way, the symptoms are less than mild. A slight cough, croaky voice and a runny nose. 4 months ago, I caught a head cold which was many times worse and I didn’t have to self isolate.

I suspect a lot of these Covid horror stories in the news lack the inclusion of that one vital word: Co-morbidities.
lucille is online now  
Old 20th Jul 2022, 22:54
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-...ated/101253540

Interesting that the 799 who passed away with Covid are list in the table as "Unvaccinated/unknown". What does "unknown" mean? Unknown needs to be separated.
clark y is online now  
Old 21st Jul 2022, 03:31
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: At Home
Posts: 342
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by lucille View Post
What worries me is the goalpost shifting of the outcomes of vaccination.

Early on Pfizer claimed 96% efficacy in preventing Covid infections. Now, itís all about minimising the symptoms, not actually stopping it.

So, as I write, Iím Covid positive with three boosters (I.e. 4 jabs in total). The ONLY people, I personally know who have tested positive have also had 4 jabs. What are the odds? Should I go buy a lotto ticket?

Oh, and by the way, the symptoms are less than mild. A slight cough, croaky voice and a runny nose. 4 months ago, I caught a head cold which was many times worse and I didnít have to self isolate.

I suspect a lot of these Covid horror stories in the news lack the inclusion of that one vital word: Co-morbidities.
That was always going to happen as the virus mutated. Early on we were dealing with the Alpha strain, now weíre up to Omicron BA.5 which I believe has an R0 value around 18 compared to Alphaís 3 and Deltaís 6. Itís basically up there with measles in terms of transmission rate.

Have you thought that maybe the reason why you only had a mild case of COVID was because of the vaccine rather than in spite of? Iíve had 3 doses and COVID was also a non event for me. For what itís worth, I wonít be getting a 4th unless thereís a new Vaccine.

What are the odds that vaccinated people are catching COVID? Pretty bloody high given most of the population is vaccinated and we know it does little in terms of transmission of Omicron. If weíre looking at anecdotal evidence, I personally only know a single person who isnít vaccinated and they were off work sick for nearly 3 weeks. Definitely wasnít COVID though, if you donít test then did you ever really have it?

Getting really tired of people overplaying co morbidities and underlying conditions as if they were a death sentence anyway. Most people who die of the Flu actually die from pneumonia caused by the Flu. Sure itís mostly oldies, as thatís the case with any illness, it always kills the old and the sick at a higher rate. But plenty of people live perfectly healthy lives with their underlying conditions (such as asthma) before COVID came along.

I donít support lockdowns or mandates, but we can call out political BS without trying to twist the data around vaccines.
ElZilcho is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 00:05
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fieldsworthy
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 28 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
So you believe co-relation DOES prove causation?
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
Corelation does not equal causation.
And many others....

My god, man, you don't even know how to spell many of the words you try to use and yet you won't give up. I'm not convinced you even know what they mean. Ceaseless inanities, wrongly spelt, trying to win your internet argument. It's embarrassing. Reminds me of that Chester the Terrier in Looney Tunes, bouncing and yapping along beside, trying to get attention and never quitting. Please spare us!
Eclan is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 00:07
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 240
Received 15 Likes on 8 Posts
I don't think English is his first language.
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 02:34
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Eclan View Post
And many others....

My god, man, you don't even know how to spell many of the words you try to use and yet you won't give up. I'm not convinced you even know what they mean. Ceaseless inanities, wrongly spelt, trying to win your internet argument. It's embarrassing. Reminds me of that Chester the Terrier in Looney Tunes, bouncing and yapping along beside, trying to get attention and never quitting. Please spare us!
Actually, those posts lead to some meaningful and frank exchanges which, while not resolving all disagreements, led to some concensus and mutual repect. People able to engage and share views can often lead to some very fulfilling and interesting interactions, for those willing and able to do so.

This doesn't incluse you, obvioulsy...
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 02:38
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
I don't think English is his first language.
I make you look foolish on one thread so you get a dig in in another.

Brave....
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 03:59
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 240
Received 15 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
I make you look foolish on one thread so you get a dig in in another.

Brave....
Again with the unnecessary aggression. I was actually defending you here.

As for the other thread, I'm not entirely sure how blowing up at other people about their 'facts', whilst being yourself completely wrong on a point of fact that would have taken you 30 seconds to google is 'making me look foolish'.

das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 05:06
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Again with the unnecessary aggression. I was actually defending you here.

As for the other thread, I'm not entirely sure how blowing up at other people about their 'facts', whilst being yourself completely wrong on a point of fact that would have taken you 30 seconds to google is 'making me look foolish'.
If you don't get how rude a lot of your posting is, it's not me with the communication problem.. Telling someone "You just don't understand" or a native english speaker "it's not his first language:" isn't as polite as you seem to think. When you pointed out I was in error, I imediatley thanked you for the correction, while you doubled down on being both passive aggressive and trying to say incorrect information wasn't.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 06:17
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 240
Received 15 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
If you don't get how rude a lot of your posting is, it's not me with the communication problem.. Telling someone "You just don't understand" or a native english speaker "it's not his first language:" isn't as polite as you seem to think. When you pointed out I was in error, I imediatley thanked you for the correction, while you doubled down on being both passive aggressive and trying to say incorrect information wasn't.
Well, no offence, but you clearly didn't understand. Further, your spelling and grammar are frankly, terrible. It was because of this I believed you may not be a native speaker. I didn't assert it as fact, merely posed it as as a possibility due the manner in which you write. No offence was intended.

Perhaps if you find the notion that others suspect you of not being a native speaker offensive, construct sentences in a manner that would not lead them to conclude as such?
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 06:31
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Well, no offence, but you clearly didn't understand.
Yes, I did. If you fly 56 hrs/mth with Jetstar you do not get 150k, so that's not what Jetstar pay.

Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Further, your spelling and grammar are frankly, terrible..
At times,Entirerly true. You should see my handwritting...

Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
It was because of this I believed you may not be a native speaker. I didn't assert it as fact, merely posed it as as a possibility due the manner in which you write. No offence was intended.
I accept that- but it's a bit like how I mentioned what I THOUGHT was Jetstars pay. It is however, presumptive and potentially offensive to go around questioning peoples language skills- I accept there was no offence intended.

Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Perhaps if you find the notion that others suspect you of not being a native speaker offensive, construct sentences in a manner that would not lead them to conclude as such?
I'm quite capable of doing so, but can't always be arsed.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 06:49
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 240
Received 15 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz
Yes, I did. If you fly 56 hrs/mth with Jetstar you do not get 150k, so that's not what Jetstar pay.
Well, in my opinion and with the greatest respect, that's the part I don't think you understand. The OP was never claiming that as a literal statement of fact. I work for J*, I know the EBA. It was obvious to me and I suspect everyone else in the thread that the point wasn't "There exists a scenario where JQ will literally pay you 50k below your base". That would be factually incorrect and easily refutable, as you said. The guy was simply making an hourly rate comparison, an extremely common methodology to make apples to apples comparisons of pay between employers.

The fact he was doing that in my view, was obvious. If you had spent 10 seconds doing the math (200,813 / 75 * 56), it may have been obvious to you as well? But who knows, perhaps what is obvious to you or me isn't the same as to others, and we're making far too great an issue out of a nothing.

Perhaps we can rephrase the argument as "Airlines don't pay pilots enough", and leave it at that
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 07:31
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,719
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
"There exists a scenario where JQ will literally pay you 50k below your base". That would be factually incorrect and easily refutable,
That is Exactly what he said. 150k for 56 hours.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 07:34
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fieldsworthy
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 28 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
Actually, those posts lead to some meaningful and frank exchanges which, while not resolving all disagreements, led to some concensus and mutual repect. People able to engage and share views can often lead to some very fulfilling and interesting interactions, for those willing and able to do so.
In the other thread you hopped in with basically guesses and unfounded claims in a fashion reminiscent, quite frankly, of someone who just wants to post something, anything, to be part of the jabber. Wouldn't it be wonderful if posts on prune contained fact and only fact instead of wild-arsed guesses dressed up as fact and people who had no idea (especially on topics like $$$) stayed out of it. It's almost as though someone's paying you by the post. Sorry but I find it hard to "repect" that sort of random, pointless and unhelpful input. I am thrilled, though, at your response time to posts on here; I wish CASA, Telstra, the ATO and my bank could be so efficient.

Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
This doesn't incluse you, obvioulsy...
Weren't you complaining about others being rude toward you?

Bye.
Eclan is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2022, 08:58
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 240
Received 15 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
That is Exactly what he said. 150k for 56 hours.
Deary me. We certainly like making things difficult. If it's your contention that op meant specifically 150k for 56 hours, guess what. He's still right!

Go have a read of the eba. If one elects, then min guarantee drops to 56 hours a month.

I'll give you one guess as to what the base pay they will receive for those 56 hours.

Take all the time you need.
das Uber Soldat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.